Who do you have higher on your p4p list, Wlad or Ward?

:good

 

Haye has way more talent than either of those two. At this point, Wlad clearly has the top win.

 

Um ... Wlad has cleaned out the division and taken all comers. Ward still has two belts to pick up. He is reluctant to fight Bute for now.

 

Ward is the number one in the division but he has not cleaned it out. Suggesting that Wards victories over Froch and Kessler outweights Wlads complete domination over his division, which has included victories over more talented foes, is bizarre.

 

Clinchko is out of my P4p list

 

Bika over Ibragimov? Really? Bika wasn't even top five - Ibragimov was and is (was) the better fighter. Neither man won in impressive fashion but Klitschko was more dominant in his win.

And... Green over Brock? No, definitely no! Green is only a name, and hardly even that. He simply doesn't belong at the highest level whereas Brocjk at least has some decent wins (not saying he's extremely special either or anything).

Chambers should be above Abraham. He's a better fighter in the weightclass - AA has proven to be a bit small at super middle. Ibragimov also is better than AA - Sultan was underrated and much more skilled than AA, who'd alredy been shown up by Froch and Dirrell.

I agree with the Kessler win as the highest, but Froch should be number two. Haye is a better win, and perhaps Byrd too. This is more arguable though so I can see your point.

As for the main queastion - Wlad for me. Height shouldn't be considered THAT big a factor when it's clear that a lo more come into play: footwork, distance control, technique, pacing yourself, working to your strengts...

It's the same with the arguments against Caballero, Williams and Donaire. It's not just their size and there are many examples on tall/big fighters who are useless at applying it in a fight.

Ward is still fresh and people, seemingly, NEVER learn to hold back on the big words. Wlad has been dominant for so long that it should take more than two big wins over Kessler and Froch to replace him. I'd agree he's a bit more skilled but I (like one poster corractly wrote) have to see him vs different styles. Dirrell and particularly Bute pose a different challenge. Then there's always Hopkins, Pascal and Dawson. I'd favout Ward over all of these with ute and Hopkins being the most difficult but the question remains: how will Ward deal with different styles?

Wlad is more proven against a wider spectrum of styles. What will happen if Ward lunges in and gets knocked out by Bute (not implausible by any means)? Will he be dropped to the far too low place 28 and be called overrated, just like so many before him?

Wlad is hurt by the fact that his brother is there and are taking his share of the opponents, so completely dominant he is NOT. But neither is Ward who still has to meet a fighter who has beaten the fighters he did more convincingly.

On a h2h sense it could be Ward (more diverse) but I need to be more convinced first. Two years vs a certain style (generally) is not enough. Depends on your criteria. h2h is a factor but shouldn't be too much since it's so easy to say "xxx is much more skilled, look at his outclassing over xxx". If you've boxed you know that it's much easier to display good skills and try new things against inferior, one-dimensional competition. Perhaps those things won't work against a Bute or Hopkins, just like Wlad's thing wouldn't work as well against a Holmes or Tyson? I think they will, but not so clearly. Still need to see it.

 

Are you not supposed to be one of the more knowledgeable posters here on ESB? The Chagaev victory over the Haye victory? Haye would walk straight through Chagaev.

 

You idiots really need to stop with the BS. I have no bias against White fighters.

 

Who has Wlad beaten since the first Brewster fight?

 

/thread

 

Exactly WHO has Wlad beaten?

 

It seems to Ward is ducking Bute

 

If the biggest emphasis is on ability and less so on belts and longevity then it has to be Ward

 

Haye a former undisputed CW king, and beat Valuev.