Let's Hear It For Sugar Ray Leonard.

Leonard was a great fighter but in terms of his accomplishments he benefits a bit from the television and big-money promotional machine of the particular era. Superior media and marketing. People remember how great Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns were in full colour TV now on youtube and the exact details of Leonard's wins against them - but we forget how many times Ike Williams fought Kid Gavilan and Sammy Angott and how the tally of wins-losses looks like. Or Canzoneri, Ambers, McLarnin, Ross.... or Britton, Kid Lewis, Benny Leonard - I'm not talking about completely obscure forgotten fighters, I'm talking about great former world champions who were stars in their day. I admit I don't know the details but some of these guys had more than 4 great wins over prime versions of their contemporary greats -but we are not even counting. Leonard gets his dues rightfully, for quality over quantity. But some of these fighters had both.

I have seen him rated many times as the greatest welterweight - excepting Ray Robinson - based primarily on 3 wins and 1 loss against Benitez, Duran and Hearns. When you look at some of the other champions' resumes being overlooked you have to wonder whether such a high rating is justified.

 

Oh, shut the **** up you whiny *****. Your type are quickly becoming the most annoying, repetitive ****s on this board.

 

It's probably illuminated by the glossy records they each had at the time he beat them. Benitez 38-0, Duran 72-1, Hearns 32-0, Kalule 36-0. Although he did wipe out a slew of rated welterweights prior to getting his shot at Benitez. Both he and Hearns wiped out the division on their collision course to the Showdown, which was a legendary performance by Leonard no matter how you slice it.

 

I only discovered the other day watching that old programme posted on this forum, that Jack 'Kid' Berg beat the great Kid Chocolate when Chocolate was undefeated, something like 54-0.
Sammy Angott beat Willie Pep when Pep was 62-0, and featherweight champion of the world.
Some of the greats have a lot of impressive wins.

I agree that Leonard was a great welterweight and all those victories were great ones. I just think many less-promoted fights from older eras get overlooked in comparison. Leonard retired as welterweight champion aged 25 with a 32-1 record. Even acknowledging all that he achieved and the quality in that record I think there are probably quite a few other welterweights in history who might argue him out of being among the top 2 ever.

 

Safe to say that having Benitez,Duran and Hearns on your resume makes you a damn good champ...The glossy records held by the aforementioned fighters had good opponents as well on their ledgers. And I agree that who SRL fought on the road to the title were good fighters as well.Example, when he fought Davey `Boy` Green, Green had fought Palomino for the title a ways before. Now, Green was stopped by Carlos, but not before giving a damn good account of himself. When Green faced SRL, he was emphatically and viciously KO`d ! A tremendous display of power , blistering combinations and remarkable poise for a young fighter. In topping Benitez ( who at the staredown looked down at SRL with utter contempt) he beat an all time great who had wiped the floor with a solid champion, Palomino. True SRL didn`t have the amount of fights that some of the legendary greats had. But, many of his fights were for big stakes and with the exception of Duran, he always adapted and came up big.His speed ( without a doubt) is damn near the top if not the top. He had good pop on his shots and a lethal body attack ( ask Hitman) He oufoxed the boxer in Benitez and OVERPOWERED the murderous hitting Hearns.Media fabrication ??? Tell that to the hall of fame fighters he beat...I give you SRR because to me he was without a doubt THE p4p king. After him ? SRL was not going to be knocked out, by anyone ! Seriously if Hearns couldn`t do it, who ??? So, tell me who outboxes,outspeeds or out finesses him ? People need to seperate their dislike of him to what he could do in a ring. Guys can all say what you want but I sorely miss the days of the Leonrds, Durans,Hearns etc etc. They fought the best because the wanted the bragging rights that came with it. Today ? Makes me want to ****ing puke... The best continously don`t fight the best ! They don`t even care about being considered the `man` So before people pick on SRL, I see a boatload of current guys who should hear the grief...

 

Oh yes and for all the sidewalk supers out there who say SRL record was `padded` Listen to Cosell`s commnetary before the Benitez fight when he ( and most of the boxing media) felt that Benitez was on another level than SRL. so it`s easy ( and simple minded ) to look back and say that it would be a cinch beating Benitez. But, back then I can assure you it was not considered `cherry picking`...

 

why is it that SRL detracters point to his lack of fights (what was it? 32-1, something like that) before his 1st retirement, yet he had about the same amount of fights as Smokin Joe and nobody doubts his place as an ATG (which he undoubtably is)

just sayin

 

**** off and die in a fire you stupid ****ing *******

 

Both are all-time greats. I would only doubt that they belong in the top 15 or 20 of all-time pound for pound.

 

Im refering mainly to the anti-leonard brigade, not to guys who look at things objectively

 

frazier no, leonard yes imo

 

Being born in 1968 I never really saw as much of sugar ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali as I'd have liked. I can only say that leonard was te finest boxer I have ever seen. He had absolutely everything and I easily rank him with the other two fighters I mention in my all time top 3. He had speed, skill, a punch, a great defence, amazing combinations, punch resistance. The list goes on and on. And to anyone who wants to knock him, look at who he beat. Say no more and they were fighters in their prime who would stand up against any other era in boxing.

 

They were WAY OFF. why would Benitez be on another level than SRL? He had no speed

 

Leonard was one of the greatest & best boxers ever, any moron can see this.

 

Gotta love the Rooster !! The experts were way off `Kid` Pambele was a bum, Palomino was a no-hoper. So Benitez had EVERYONE fooled but you the Rocket Scientist Rooster. Duran, Cervantes, Palomino, who are they ??? Your boxing acumen is amazing ??? Why are you on here anyway ? This isn`t a knee-pad Norris post ??? Beintez, no speed ? Hey Einstein, did you know that when `El Radar` beat Cervantes, he was only 17 yrs. old ? And he beat an established champion in Cernates who went on to win the title back, when Benitez stepped up and beat Palomino. Talk about clueless....