Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

I disagree Williams is mostly myth, a Puncher to me is someone that has proven they can KO quality, being able to punch like David Rodriguez against fighters with losing records and proving it against a top guy is 2 different things we can not assume a guy was a great puncher with no proof, now Lyle could punch he was strong but in many fights could not Ko a guy with his strength and struggled, he was not a pinpoint puncher but the proof is in the pudding and being classified as a top puncher to me means you had to KO some quality to be an elite puncher

...Lyle's big KD was over Foreman but remember Jimmy Young also had Foreman on the floor. Could they punch yes but there not on my Top punchers list because they did not prove it and that is where we differ in opinion.

 

I disagree Williams is mostly myth, a Puncher to me is someone that has proven they can KO quality, being able to punch like David Rodriguez against fighters with losing records and proving it against a top guy is 2 different things we can not assume a guy was a great puncher with no proof, now Lyle could punch he was strong but in many fights could not Ko a guy with his strength and struggled, he was not a pinpoint puncher but the proof is in the pudding and being classified as a top puncher to me means you had to KO some quality to be an elite puncher

...Lyle's big KD was over Foreman but remember Jimmy Young also had Foreman on the floor. Could they punch yes but there not on my Top punchers list because they did not prove it and that is where we differ in opinion.

 

on film only westphal was iced but all other Liston victims were not "out" like walcott was against marciano. layne was out. Louis was out. mathews out. I would say at elite level marciano iced more top fighters, hes the better puncher because he landed his power sweeter on top fighters.

 

Louis was not out, LaStarza was not out , Charles was not out, Cockell was not out, Moore was not out ... regardless it's not who hit harder shot for shot (although I favor Sonny) .. it's who will land more often and faster ...

 

Oh dear God let it stop.

On what basis, a 100% H2H criteria?

 

MAYBE in an IMAGINARY-WORLD where tiny lightheavy featerfist bums Marty Marshall And Leotis Martin did not whup that OVERRATED SPINELESS BULLY?? :think:think

 

:rofl :deal

I don't care what anyone says Foreman Hook, you're alright. Keep doing you. :good

 

It was not proven that Williams was a puncher against quality opponents, a lot of these so called experts are still learning, guys like Max Kellerman and as far as the Ring magazine it has not been good since Nat Fleischer died, I new them all, Nat Loubet was Fliechers brother in law and ran the wresting and John Ort who Don King bribed for the ratings fix was Loubets son in law. You want to call them experts but I knew them and knew better.

As far as Lyle he was a decent puncher not a killer puncher. Watch his tapes, look over his fights, the win over Shavers was typical of Shavers losses run out of gas and get stopped, Ron Stander was the 1st to stop Earnie, he could not budge Quarry and Jerry dominated him. Again you keep quoting the Ring magazine as gospel but other than Nat Fleischer none of them knew boxing. It was in the Gyms of NYC and outside the fights when the sharp minds used to gather and talk, the promoters like Russel Petlz of the Phillie Spectrum, the trainers like Freddie Brown, the inside guys, the writers like Flash Gordon and one of the best promoters that ever lived Teddy Brenner ran the shows and that is where I saw a different point of view and a different way of looking at boxing.

 

I have thought over this Head to Head match-up for many a year and I still think Marciano has a very good chance on winning this... and ending it before 15.

 

Not worth debating the power because I don't see it as being debatable.

The point of debate in this matchup is who's cumulative power will count for most. If rocky lands an extra 5 power shots a round, will it be enough to surpass the damage liston is inflicting?

 

without a doubt!

 

That would be rocky. he had more work rate and was harder to hit clean as well as having the better jaw. Often if two punchers meet the guy with the worst whiskers lucks out. Often when two punchers meet it is the guy with the better engine who wins. Often a good big man beats a good little man, but at 1 inch shorter just how little was marciano? At age 24-29 Liston was 198 natural pounds and at his title winning best he was but 10lb heavier than joe walcott who could not force rocky back.old joe louis was the same size as Liston, whilst not as great a fighter as liston at that point louis's size did not factor at all against marciano.