Best Performance in a Decision Win Ever

Non filmed domination has to greb v tunney. He pasted him.

For a filmed exhibition it's hard to say, so many great victories. How about ali v terrell?

 

Guys, I hate to be the gadfly here, but let's readdress the first Loche-Cervantes fight. Before I begin, let's make this clear on the high esteem I have for Loche. I rate him my #2 jr. welter champ of all time (Cervantes is my #1) and he was definitely one of the most avoided lightweights around during the '60s (top contender for about 4 years and held 2 135 lb. champs to draws without a title shot). Regarding this fight, until we can see all 15 rounds I would take that decision with a grain of salt. Argentine officiating and decisions did favor the homeboy. It's simply a matter of fact that Argentina and Japan were notorious for 'fence-sitting' judges. You will always see a plethora of draws on Argentine records. I don't wish to say it was always home-cooking, but out of 136 fights 132 was fought in Argentina. His record outside the safe confines was 1-2-1. Regarding the 15th round of Loche-Cervantes I, some of you may have been really taken with that round. However, there was only one fighter actually fighting. The other was mugging. Loche was very cute in that 15th round, but I don't give points for being cute. Cervantes was throwing and Loche was ducking. I scored for the fighter who was fighting. Now, perhaps that was the only round he was being cute in. I don't know, but if he fought every round like this, then I have a problem with the decision. Was there 3 Argentine judges? Is there any really good write-up on this fight? I have so many questions on this fight. I have a good write-up at home in a mag on the Loche-Pruitt fight and Pruitt had a lot to say about the decision against him and again suggests home-cooking and giving points for ducking. Was he just too old against Frazer or was it because he didn't have Argentine officials? Let's face it, nobody has Frazer in their all-time top ten. Again, I like to think everything was square, but I would like to read up on unbiased reports, see more footage, hear what some of the opponents say rather than go on face value. Until then, I will still rate Loche high, but I have my doubts on Loche-Cervantes I.

Scartissue

 

As a wild card : Hopkins - Tarver

 

Benitez v cervantes should never have been a split decision.

Infact it's hard to imagine locche having been any more dominant against cervantes than benitez was.

 

I thought McGirt had a pretty impressive performance against Simon Brown.

 

Interesting question, Nightcrawler. In this tantalizingly brief footage from 1966, Locche is 25, Carlos Ortiz 29. Nicolino is certainly using his legs more than he did against Fuji in 1968, and in his other later title bouts. From 2:20 to about 2:45, he's mostly coming forward in a display of aggression we might not expect him to close the match with against Carlos.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5w-d8U73s[/ame]

There's plenty of earlier footage of Canzoneri displaying phenomenal legs which we've all seen, but he wasn't using foot movement much at all by the time he defeated the much more youthful and energetic Ambers for his final championship. Tony was still just 26 to Lou's 21 at the time, but Canzi already had over 130 fights of ring wear behind him.

Looking at Canzoneri's footwork against the likes of Berg and Chocolate in 1931, then comparing it to Ambers I in 1935, and McLarnin I in 1936, it's clear he conserved his legs much more, and dramatically increased his efficiency, something like a diamond cutter. Likewise, I think the same process took place with Locche as he got older and more experienced, usually a critical necessity when competing with that kind of frequency for any length of time.

We don't have the luxury of extensive Locche footage from his early 20s, as we do of a 21 year old Ambers against Canzi, or Tony himself at age 22 in his knockout of Berg, but we might be able to extrapolate from the 1966 Ortiz footage that Nicolino's leg work and lateral movement in his 1963 shutout of Old Bones Brown might have been impressive to watch at age 23.

For me, Whitaker was too reliant on his athleticism to sustain a career of triple the number of professional bouts he actually competed in like Locche did, or quadruple the number of matches he held like Canzi. But we just don't know.

By my reckoning, Pea could well have been 43-0-0 after Pestrayev at age 33. Extremely respectable, and a well deserved IBHOF inductee, but the fact remains that the sheer volume Locche generated isn't there with Pernell, and Nicolino was nearly 37 when he ended his career with a seven fight winning streak after a two and a half year hiatus following Cervantes II. (Again, he deserved to go out by celebrating turning 37 with a shot at his old title against the 17 year old Benitez, the same age Pea finally bowed out against Bojorquez at in 2001. Locche-Benitez would have been defensive wizardry for the ages.)

My suspicion is that Nicolino could punch far harder than his record would ever suggest. In round six, he staggered Brown with a hard right, decked Carlos Hernandez twice, and fighting right handed for 14 rounds against southpaw Domingo Barrera in a desperate situation with broken tendons in his left arm, knocked out his mouthpiece in round ten, and staggered him again with rights in the 13th and 14th rounds.

Against Fuji, he repeatedly delivers hard whacks to the body with his hook, and at the very end nearly sends Paul's head into orbit with a couple of right uppercuts in close out of a clamshell cover. Despite his anemic knockout percentage, I think he might have been a harder puncher for his weight than say, Canto, Rosenbloom or Loughran. (Unlike El Maestro or Slapsie Maxie though, Tommy never took out a world class opponent. I did see the tape of Canto taking out Takada, and Rosenbloom did unify the LHW Championship by dropping and stopping Bob Godwin in four, just as Locche halted Fuji for his title.)

So in terms of chronological longevity, Locche and Whitaker match up. As I indicated, I believe Locche, like Canzi, evolved more. (Benitez, on the other hand, evolved very little to compensate for loss of youth and ring wear.)

 

No cause for regret here, Scartissue. (You saved me from having to log into an alternate account to play Devil's advocate!)

It's an excellent counterbalance to my initial post on the subject. Interest was generated, and now tempered by a sober cautionary counterpoint. Thoughtful and intelligently considered skepticism like this is what separates we higher evolved and civilized creatures in Classic from the General Forum's Sleestak saprovores. ("Tyson wooda kicked Foreman's ass!" "Oh yeh? Well u suk my dik u ***it!" Christ, peeking into the General cesspool much be like watching a political debate!)

 

This thread had been done at least 2 times previously , 1 of them by myself .

 

Duo and scartissue; both contributing brilliance to this thread, thanks gents.

 

Thanks, Flea. And Duo - I know exactly what you mean with some of the posters out there. Once I gave an opinion on something that was asked and, my God, there was a dude who attacks me with a "Blow me!" type of counter. I suppose I shouldn't be too harsh. Afterall, it can't be easy for some of them dragging their knuckles on the ground on a daily basis.