Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?

Tarver wasn't really a challenge. Both guys were undefeated and had legitimate claims to #1 contendership. If Tarver had beaten Harding the first time, he would have gotten his shot.

 

I'm new to ESB and I don't really know where to start with this thread. There's some good posters on here that have a lot of knowledge, and then there's all the morons (Roid Jones, as soon as he stopped taking roids he lost, and he's a glass jawed fraud etc, etc)

First off, the steroid issue. I must have typed this a thousand times on lots of different boxing forums. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you're going to try and discredit one of the best fighters who's ever fought, try and do it with intelligence and back up your opinions with facts. Roy used Ripped Fuel. It was banned by the IBF and not by any other Body. He openly bought it and was later told that it was a banned substance. He then stopped using it. He didn't get banned, stripped or fined, because it was still legal by the other Bodies. What happened after he was pulled up? He was randomly tested in 4/5 fights afterwards and guess what? He never failed again!

Some of you make me just sit here with my head in my hands! He didn't take Steroids and if he did, what do you think would have happened? Do you think Steroids can make you throw a leaping left hook at a ridiculous speed. Roy should retire and sell Roy Jones Jr Roids on teleshop or the QVC channel on Sky. "Hey guy's! Buy my Roids and you too can fight like me, for just $55! I might go to my local gym tonight and buy some roids off of a bodybuilder I know. Then when I've taken them, I'm going to walk into my local boxing gym and challenge the best fighter. I'm then going to get in the ring and fire off a lightning 8 punch combination and then knock him out with a leaping left hook! Ha!

The Second thing to discuss, is the weight loss after Ruiz. This whole thread is ridiculous. So was Jones a great LHW and just got old, or was he never a great LHW and just exposed when he stepped up?

Discuss

It's blatantly obvious that Roy was never the same fighter after Ruiz. It's nothing to do with his competition when he stepped up. He fought better fighters before Ruiz anyway. Toney and Hopkins were better fighters than Tarver and Calzaghe etc. Roy's career was over as soon as he came back to 175 from 200 pounds. He came back too soon and he killed his body. It wasn't fat, it was pure muscle! He burnt his muscle fibres in 8 months. Alton Merkerson should never have let him fought just 8 months after Ruiz. They should have got expert advice.

He took 6 weeks off after Ruiz, and then did nothing but run for months on end, sapping all of his strength. When he came back he'd lost his reflexes, his legs, his stamina and his punch resistance. Ruiz hit him with some great shots. He didn't have a glass jaw before he came back to 175. He didn't have a fantastic chin, but he didn't have a glass jaw. He should have hired Mackie Shilstone and taken a lot of time off. He then should have fought at cruiser, somewhere around 180 and then slowly back to 175. Most of you have know idea how much damage he did to himself and what effect it had on him.

You saw what happened in the first Tarver fight. He had absolutely nothing left in the tank after the 8th round. He was completely spent. But for me, Roy's career officially ended in September 2004 against Johnson. I'm a big Johnson fan, I like the guy. But lets be honest, pre Ruiz, it would have been a sparring session for Roy. Roy didn't just get knocked out via a mistake or a lucky shot. He lost every one of the nine rounds he fought before getting knocked out. He couldn't ever win a single round against Johnson. Afterwards, the fight the Doctors said that he was completely dehydrated, and he shouldn't have been anywhere near a ring.

He should at that point, have taken a long rest, and then had one more fight, for pride, and then hung them up for good. He had nothing left to prove. Instead, he came back against Amaju (who?) Hanshaw (who?) and then he fought Tito, who couldn't even make 170, who hadn't fought in over 3 years. Then in November 2008, 2 months away from his 40th birthday, he fought Joe Calzaghe. All these comments such as, Joe schooled him etc, are a complete joke. Joe gets NO CREDIT at all for that win. He schooled Roy on POINTS FOUR years, that's FOUR years, after he was dominated and knocked out by Glencoffe Johnson. Some of you make me laugh!

At 35, Roy gets knocked out by Tarver in Feb 04 and then in September of the same year he gets brutally knocked out by Johnson, who had 3 life and death fights with Clinton Woods. Then over FOUR years later, when he's nearly 40. Joe schools him! Whoopee doo! What an incredible achievement for Joe. He schools a near 40 year old that's been knocked out twice four years earlier. Then a year later, Roy gets knocked out by Danny Green. Let's give Joe a medal! What a great win! What a joke.

There's not a doubt in my mind that Roy wouldn't have beaten Joe between 97-2002. He sruggled with Reid and Kessler for 6 rounds, so what chance had he got against Roy at his peak? He was agreat fighter but he left himself too open. There's no way he could have beaten Roy, when Roy was anywhere near his best. What happened in 2008 is totally irrelevant.

So, to answer the posters question, it was nothing to do wth him stepping up in class. It was the sudden weight loss of 20 pounds of pure muscle in just 8 months, at 34 that stopped Roy in his tracks. Tarver, Johnson, Calzaghe, Green and Lebedev could never have beaten the version of Roy between 1994-2003.

Sorry for the long post. Get back to me if you want an intelligent debate.

Regards, Loudon.

 

First off welcome. Secondly I could not agree more! :good

 

you need to take your roy jones tinted glasses off and shut the **** up :deal

the roy jones ripped fuel stuff was absolute bull**** for gullable, brainwashed fanboys like you to read without even questioning your idol atsch

read the following thread about the day roy jones failed the drug test and then maybe you can make your 2nd esb post more accurate and respectable then your delusional, bull**** 1st post :nono


http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365000&page=3

 

Dont waste your time, this thread is a calzaghe circle jerk. It only exist because of Calzaghe, his fanboys make threads about RJJ, Hopkins, and James Toney, because all of these are better skilled and accomplished more than Calzaghe and fought around or at his weight class.

 

Heard it all before my friend. It's been discussed to death. There's so many flaws in that case, that other posters have pointed out, that you have no intention of taking into consideration. You should be embarrassed of your post on the 2nd page at no. 30. It's laughable. Basically, every great performance of Roy's, is down to Roids, and when ever he's lost, that was when he wasn't taking them? It's impossible debating with a guy like you. I could sit and pick everyone of your posts to bits, if I had the energy. It's all bile!

Serious question for you, have you ever boxed at any level? Have you ever been into a boxing gym? Lets look at your appalling level of fighters from your post. Eric Harding was a good fighter who beat Antonio Tarver in their first fight. If Tarver had had've one he could have fought Roy at that point. But he lost and then Roy went on to fight Harding. Clinton Woods wasn't a great fighter, but was he appaling? I don't think so.

Ruiz. Hand picked so you say? No he wasn't! Roy's team had talks with Evander Holyfield and his team just prior to Evander's fight with Ruiz. Roy had huge respect for Evander, and wanted to fight him in the late 90's aswell as a fight with Buster Douglas. It was Roy snr that blocked both fights. Around five years later in 2002 Roy's advisor Murad Muhammad met with Evander's team. All the talks went well and it was agreed that if Evander beat Ruiz they would try and make the fight with Roy. What happened? Ruix beat Holy.

A few weeks after the fight, Holy's team got back in touch and asked about the fight. Roy decided against it because Ruiz had won. He felt that he wouldn't get any credit if he fought Evander at that point, because Ruiz was WBA champion. He instead turned his attention to Ruiz and asked Murrad to try and make him that fight. So, Roy did not hand pick Ruiz! But even if he did, it was still a great achievement. Now i'm not going to pretend that Ruiz was a great heavy, because everyone knows that he wasn't. But the fact is, it was still a hell of a challenge for a guy fighting at 175 to move up and fight a guy at 220 who was a world champion.

He'd just beaten Evander (who fair enough was past his best) but as I say it was still a challenge for a 34 year old former 160 fighter. If it was that easy then more fighters would have done it. Give the guy some respect! A lot of respected fighters and sports writers had Ruiz to win, because of huge weight advantage.

Then Jones gets slaughtered by Jones and Taver you spout? Just read my above post, that clearly indicates why he was slaughtered as you say. Why didn't Tarver slaughter him in the first fight, when Roy had nothing left after 8 rounds? Why didn't he slaughter him in the third fight. You think that Johnson would have beaten Roy pre Ruiz?

Hanshaw, Ajamu and Trinidad were all after the weight loss when he was in his late 30's. So what? Jones steps up competition to fight Calzaghe? Ha! Again read my post. He beats Roy on points at nearly 40 FOUR years after Johnson had Knocked him out. Wowzers! A beatdown? He got knocked down by a near 40 year old fighter. Embarrassing or what? He then slaughtered him that much that he won a POINTS decision. You're a complete joker!

Then it's Lacy and Sheika. C class fighters who he looked good against at 40 years of age. So what? If I had the time and energy I'd pull up everyone of your posts and rip them to shreds. You're trying to discredit a legend and guess what? You're failing miserably. For you, and all of the idiots that claim Roy fought nobody etc, why don't you try this. Go and have a look at Roy's opponents through the years, and look at who they fought before they fought Roy. Then afterwards, go and look at who they went on to fight and beat after. You'll be surprised, it makes interesting reading.

Bull**** first post? If you don't agree with the steroid issue, what about the rest of my post? Is that all bull**** too? Don't let any facts get in the way of your horrible bile! Come back to me! I'll embarrass you all day long!!

 

Well did Joe retire the minute he started to step up in competition ?

ANSWER IS YES !

 

I eagerly await a response.

 

Great post, welcome to esb, hope to see more post from you.

 

It's baffling how these people idolise Roy Jones, despite the fact that he used steroids, to gain an advantage in a brutal sport like boxing, where the effects can be damaging to an opponents long term health.

 

It would be less painful rubbing your bell end against a cheese grater than to get any sense out of these team elite/calslappy ****s!!!

 

fanny, who is the roided limp-wristed baldy bum pirate in your avatar? :dead:barf

 

Because they are pea-brained puppets. They have been brainwashed and can´t see the wood for the trees. They advocate disgraceful cheating. :barf:-verysad:dead:nono

 

Hey up headgiver lost your bollocks so resorted to posting under this twatty username, one thing to say to you atsch

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Gained, Let's have a lookat everyone on that list. Half of them aren't even relevant.

Liles? I'm assuming you've brought this up because of the amateurs?

Calzaghe, When Roy was the the pound for pound no. 1 fighter in the world, Joe was an absolutely nobody outside of the U.K. No one in the U.S. and the rest of the world knew who he was. He'd only beaten Eubank. Because of his reluctance to fight in the U.S. and at 175 (despite in his own words, having to kill himself to make 168) nobody knew who he was until he'd schooled Lacy in 2006. In 2006 Roy at that point was done. Go and read Joe's auto biography. He wanted nothing to do with a peak Roy Jones. He didn't even fight in Roy's weight class or in his Country. He said in his book "I think i could give Roy a hell of a fight, but I know what my capabilities are, and I'd want the crown jewels for it." He never persued a fight with Roy. He never did anything to get him in the ring. He never called him out or anything.

Eubank, a great fighter, but he was happy fighting in England on Sky for ******. He never persued Roy and wasn't bothered about the big fights in the U.S.

Collins, The Celtic Warrior. Steve desperately wanted to fight Roy, but Roy wasn't interested. He brought nothing to the table. He'd lost to Johnson and McCallum who Roy had beaten. Roy was at light heavy and Steve didn't have a belt or bring any money to the table. If Steve had've been one of the Champions at 175 or he'd been a mandotary, they would have fought. I've got to give him credit for chasing a fight with Roy, something that Joe would never have done.

Micheal Nunn, great fighter. That would have been a great fight. The window of opportunity was too small for them tom fight. Toney knocked him out in 91/92 when Roy was up and coming. It's a shame it never happened but he easily beat Toney who had knocked him out.

Dariusz. would have been a good fight, but it became impossible to make. Roy wouldn't even consider going to Germany (he was p4p no.1, why should he have) and Dariusz could never agree to terms to fight in the U.S. Roy gets stated for ducking him. But seriously, he didn't, and why would he have? Dariusz was a good fighter, but there's nothing in my opinion, to suggest that he was good enough to beat Roy.

Benn, one of my favourite fighters. By the time he wanted Roy, he was nearly done. Would have been a great fight, but blocked by Don King. The ultimate boxer vs fighter contest. A shame it never came off, but Roy easily beat Malinga who Benn a lot of problems.

Jirov, no idea why he's on your list. But Roy should have stopped off at cruiserweight after he'd come down from Tarver. Instead of rushing back to 175 he should have eased back into it. But in 2003, the cruiserweight division was poor, just **** it is now.

The G-man. That would have been a hell of a fight. Roy had grown up around Gerald and knew all about him. I think they would have fought at some point in the late 90's if the tragedy hadn't have happened with Benn. It would have been a very dangerous fight for Roy. I think Gerald would have moved up to 175 eventually.

Maske and Rochgianni? I don't think they're big losses to Roy's resume.

You can't fight everyone, and the majority of the time there's politcs and other obstacles in the way. The fact is, if Roy had've beaten all those fighters on that list, but hadn't have fought Toney and Hopkins etc, we'd be sat here having a debate about Roy ducking them both. Toney, Hopkins and Mccallum (even though he was past his best when he fought Roy) are better than most of the guys on that list.