Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?

Harding - unbeaten had beat Tarver schooling him and Griffin
Griffin - had beat Toney twice and Jones
Gonzalez - undefeated had beaten Glen Johnson
Reggie Johnson - only ever lost very controversially

And then below weight that you have Toney and Hopkins

 

:roflatsch Barking up the wrong tree completely fanny. Must be all those roids you ingest anally.:dead

 

heavy knock out, very heavy ... he was counted out perfectly
HBO classic

 

Dave, there's plenty of youtube videos that you could put up of Roy, why that particular video? Hmm. Why don't you a start a, Roy Jones only beat janitors, cops and dinnerladies thread? In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's already been done on here ha!

 

To get the things fair, the best Roy's win in his whole career is over Toney ...
wasn't Toney getting down somethings like 30lb before his fight with Roy?
Do you think that affected Toney somehow during the fight?

 

I honestly think you are verbally gifted man.:good Seriously wher the hell do you come up with all this talk, you have extremely active imagination.

 

A few points you missed:

To get Benn/McClellan fights King wanted to sign Jones on a long term contract and Jones wasn't having that, he wanted a 1 fight deal, which King would not agree to

Calzaghe - said he was afraid to fly and is on record saying no one could beat Roy Jones when Jones was prime

Eubank - openly admitted to turning the fight down

Collins - Jones and his management actually invited him to be ringside at 1 of their fights, but HBO preferred Reggie Johnson as an opponent. He was training for a proposed comeback fight with Jones when Howard Eastman ko'd him in sparring

Nunn - if he did avoid anyone it was probably Nunn, very tricky

Rochiagani - actually pulled out of a Jones fight to chase a WBC lawsuit. This kept him innactive until he sold himself to the highest bidder, so he fought Darius and not Jones.

Darius - it seems Darius was happy defending against sub par opposition in Germany.

Maske - lost and faded away as Jones moved into the division

 

Peppermint, Love muffin, cheers. It's crazy on here!

Dave, well done a video of Roy getting knocked out at 34 after Ruiz. Brilliant! Why don't you put the Lebedev one up?

Powerpuncher, Hi mate. Correct and you certainly have a great knowledge of the sport.

Stinkygloves, Hi mate, good point, but there's a world of difference. James had been on the cakes in his family's bakery. James was 26 and gorged himself in between fights. He had to lose around 30 pounds of bodyfat, fat, not muscle. Roy at 34 had to lose 20 pounds of muscle. He burnt off all of his muscle fibres. Like I say, there's a world of difference. James wasn't at his best that night, but a few things to consider.

1, why when he was one of the best fighters in the world, was he so out of shape at 26?

2. If he knew he'd have all of that trouble making the weight, why did they agree to fight in November? Why didn't they try and get it for early 1995?

3. What could Roy do about it? It's nothing to do with Roy? James knew how good Roy was and he knew what a huge fight it was?

4. After the fight, during James's interview, James stated that he'd had trouble making the weight and that he was coming back at 175. He never said anything about wanting a re-match. This is the biggest mouth in boxing, and he never ever stated that he wanted to fight Roy again. He didn't even mention it in 2003 when Roy went upto heavyweight. He didn't want a rematch with Roy.

So, he definately wasn't at a 100 per cent against Roy, but that always takes the shine of of Roy's win. I think it would have been a bit close if Jame's had've been in shape, but I think Roy would still have beaten him pretty comfortably.

 

If i'm not mistaken the winner of Rocco-Nunn was supposed to fight Jones.

Here's an earlier article with Jones mentioning Nunn's name as a possible opponent:
http://news.google.ie/newspapers?id...=5461,8093720&dq=roy+jones+michael+nunn&hl=en

 

Dave, I didn't say it didn't count. I'm saying Roy was finished as a fighter after he'd lost all the weight after Ruiz. He went upto heavy at completely the wrong time and came back too quick. If you're not a fan, then fine, you've got no sympathy for him. Fair enough. But the point of the article, is to discuss whether Roy faded as he supposedly moved up in competition. When everybody knows, that he was never the same after his dramatic weight loss in his mid thirties.

Of course the losses count. But in 2004 he got brutally knocked out by a journeyman in Johnson. Look who Johnson fought before and after. He won every one of the 9 rounds against Roy and then he knocked him out. Afterwards he lost to guys like Woods, who Roy and easily beat. The point is, it was blatantly obvious that Roy wasn't the same as what he once was. You know that Glencoffe Johnson would never have beaten Roy pre 2003. Also, I'm sure you don't think that Green, Calzaghe and Lebedev would have beaten him pre 2003.

 

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the crux of the whole matter is the steroids issue loudon, the rest of your post is not even worth reading untill we have addressed the main issue. i've never tried to make out that joe bloggs off the street could take steroids and become a world class boxer, but an already world class boxer who takes anabolic steroids can push himself onto the next level, do we really believe that ben johnson could have run the 100m in 9.83 in 1988 without anabolic steroids? of course he couldn't, there are fine margins at elite level, the juicing probably took johnson from a 10.1 runner to a 9.83 runner :deal






below is a series of facts to refresh your mind on the failed roy jones drugs test.



- steroid testing in american boxing did not begin till 2002

- jones thought his urine sample for the 2000 bout v richard hall was purely for the testing of stimulants

- The state of Indiana had started their own anabolic steroid testing in 2000 as a pilot scheme (to analyse the costs involved with it) but no one outside of the state knew about it

- jones tested positive for over 6 times the normal amount of testosterone in the body

- Jacob Hall said he wanted to prosecute Roy Jones but couldn't because he didnt have the law on his side. The state of Indiana had no law in place to punish them at that time so they referred the results to the sanctioning bodies. The WBA and WBC would ignored the results. The IBF would sit on the results for around 5 months before contacting Roy and asking him to take a steroid test

- roy jones refused to give the steroid test, refusing to respond to the letter during training for harding.

- soon after, another letter was sent requiring jones to take another anabolic steroids test and for the 2nd time jones never responded or gave the required sample.

- jacob hall contacted jones' camp about making the richard hall fight a no-contest.

- in the end, months after, as way of compromise, jones agreed to give tests to indiana for his next 2 fights and made a charitable donation to Indianapolis Police Athletic League.

- It should be pointed out that Jones never tested postive for Andro(which was used in Ripped Fuel). He tested postive for an Anabolic steroid and his explanation was that it was Ripped Fuel. there has never been any evidence to state it was andro, just a carefully prepared statement from jones attorney 4 weeks after the test blaming the result on ripped fuel and a nasal spray.

- despite jacob hall being in charge of this information, he had only ever twice been interviewed on the subject and roys failed anabolic steroids test was virtually ever given exposure in the media, the information was covered up and swept under the carpet.






i got series of questions to ask you about roy jones, seen as you possibly could well be him like atberry = chris eubank on here. i hope you take the time to directly answer these questions openly and duck none of them.


1 - why did roy jones ignore 2 futher requests for urine samples for anabolic steroids after the richard hall fight?

2 - why do you think roy gave a charitable donation to the indianaplis police athletic league months after twice refusing to give them a urine sample for anabolic steroids testing?

3 - what is your opinion on a boxer using anabolic steroids in a sport where the clean opponent he is facing is putting his life on the line against someone with illegal, manufactured advantages.

4 - the likes of roy jones, jones toney, and shane mosley are proven drug cheating disgraces - why would these fighters choose to take anabolic steroids?

5 - jones was caught loading v richard hall, why would jones suddenly start loading against a nobody like richard hall? isn't the likely hood that jones had been juicing on many, many occasions but had just gotten found out by testing before the hall fight in 2000 because testing for steroids in american boxing did not begin till 2002, with jones thinking his urine sample in 2000 was purely for the testing of stimulants?

 

Wow, what's up with all the butthurt RJJ haters around here?

 

I quite like Roy Jones but he does get over rated to ****

Yes he was a tremendous athlete but he beat Hopkins and Toney and thats it, the Ruiz win means **** all and after that it was a slippery slope downwards

 

Head, thanks for the reply. First off, I've already seen the document and other pieces of paperwork. As I said in my previous post, it isn't as cut and dried as you are making out. There's many interesting points on the previous post, that people don't/won't take into consideration, because they want something to beat Roy with.

I don't advocate cheating in any way, but comparing Ben Johnson's case to the allegation that Roy cheated is ridiculous. Like I say, there's so many questions that need answering. Ben Johnson was able to run faster, but lets say for arguments sake, Roy was guilty. What serious benefit would he get out of it? What serious advantage would he have? He could train harder for longer periods of time. He could lift heavy weights and bulk up quicker. But it wouldn't affect his boxing skills.

It wouldn't affect his timing, handspeed, footwork, his defence, he's still got to make the weight for the weigh in. What are we saying here? He hits twice as hard? his punch resistance becomes like Larry Holmes? What?

Anyway, back to the document. Roy thought that test was only for the testing of stimulants? So that's why he agreed to the test right? If they'd have told him that they were testing for steroids, he'd have refused right? That's what your implying isn't it? They told him that they wanted to test him aswell as Hall, and he agreed. Jacob Hall couldn't prosicute Roy, because he didn't have a clear case with evidence of what he thought Roy had taken.

It's ridiculous! Roy was the best pound for pound fighter on the planet and was the Unified Light heavy champ of the world, and when the results were referred to the sanctioning bodies that Roy represented, they did absolutely nothing. Why would they do nothing? If they was a clear case and they did nothing, they'd be advocating cheating! Roy represented the WBA and WBC and they weren't even bothered about doing an investigation.

If they'd have thought there was anything in it, they'd have acted immediately. The IBF then sat on the results for 5 months. Why? It took them a whole 5 months to contact Roy to ask for another test. Do you think that Roy's going to jump up and give them a test, when nobody else seemed interested and they'd implied he'd cheated? Roy's not going to jump through hoops for them.

They sent a letter again asking for another test, and he never responded. Why would he have? They didn't take any action after he ignored them the first time. Why would Hall contact Roy's camp about making the Hall fight a no-contest? They don't need to say **** to Roy's camp. Why didn't they strip him of his title? Why didn't they contact the other Governing Bodies? Why did they let him make more defences of his title?

Why didn't they make a stand to the rest of the Boxing World? If they had a cut and dried case, why would they try and make a compromise? Jacob Hall had got this damning information, but only gave two interviews and then compromised with Roy's team.

Now to your four questions.

1. I've already answered, and it was a request not an order.

2. As I said, I don't advocate cheating, but I don't see what huge advantage a fighter would gain anyway. It doesn't enhance his skillset in anyway. He could train harder, and maybe bulk up quicker, if he was moving up in weight. He's not going to turn into the terminator that destroys anything he touches.

3. Again, why would they? I don't know.

4. You're implying that Roy has always used steroids until he was caught in 2000. After the compromise, when the dust had settled, Roy was randomly tested another 3/4 times. He never failed again? Why was that? You hate Roy that much (for some reason) that there's no give or take with you. The biggest Bodies in boxing, The WBA and WBC didn't even look into this case? Why was that? Are they all corrupt? What's your explination?

Anyway, lets put the steroid issue to one side, why do you hate Roy so bad? You say things like he handpicked Ruiz and it was an easy victory etc etc. Do you think Andre Ward etc will ever move up and fight a 220 pound Top ten ranked heavy? You're lucky to have seen someone as gifter as Roy in your lifetime.

 

No more than Calzaghe, especially on these forums. I've never seen so much bromance for a guy who did next to nothing his whole career except manage to retire unbeaten, as if that amounts to anything, but whatever I guess...