Well I could say it's not "right" to say that because Tyson got utterly thrashed in four fights his chin is better. Once Tyson got hit hard enough to drop him, the fight was over for him, on every occasion. That's a bad chin. I don't really believe he had a bad chin -as I've said - i'm just ironing out another perspective, one that runs in the opposite direction to yours. I'm personally more impressed with Dempsey ability to turn around shipping bombs to a huge puncher like Firpo and coming back to win (whilst semi-concious, or something like it) than I am with Tyson getting hit by huge Lewis punches, dropped, and beaten. This is moving the goalposts though. Getting knocked down and getting up to fight on successfully is probably the most important mark of a good chin. You can have all the chin you like, if it isn't tide-turning it isn't worth it. This talking about coming back in a "losing" fight isn't that important. When the referee is saying 4...5...6...7, that is as close to losing as it is possible for a fighter to be. It doesn't matter if he is 2-1 up on the scorecards at that time, or 4-2 down. As a Tyson fan, I'm sure you are going to mount a spirited defence, and that's good. I'll probably agree with most of what you write, as I've said, I think he's right up there for flat-out punch resistance ie, getting punched hard and not falling over. I just think Dempsey's resistance to losing after getting hit with these type of punches is more impressive, not to mention more important.
Dempsey was outweighed by 65 lbs against Williard, and routinely fought big men and was considered a "giant slayer." I think it's safe to say that he had an excellent chin; however, Mike Tyson had an excellent chin in his own right. It's debateable who had the best chin straight up, but PFP Dempsey wins hands down.
Chin is normally measured with how much punishment you can take before going down. Did Dempsey ever take the kind of punishment Tyson did? if that was the case, a guy like Ruddock would have had Tyson out of there in a couple of rounds. Guys like Tucker and Bruno rocked Tyson in the first round visibly more than Holyfield and Douglas did and he came back to win those fights big, one by majority landslide and the other by KHTFO. Ruddock also hit Tyson with everything except the kitchen sink and Tyson took those without blinking, same Ruddock who laid out Mike Dokes with one punch for about 10 minutes So is it a bad chin or not? As i said before, thats got more to do with recuperative skills, heart, desire, will to win, more than actual 'chin' as such. No, thats got more to do with heart and less to do with chin. If your chin was that good, you wouldnt be on your ass in the first place I believe Tyson was only ever given the count twice his whole career, once against Douglas and once against Lewis?
01:40 says everything about Tysons chin [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUAG1bjht40&feature=related[/ame]
I have no doubt that Tyson had a very good chin but some of the reasoning used to defend him is a little bit biased. Let's be honest, Buster Douglas has an almost ZERO record of knocking out world class heavyweights, who apart from Tyson did he stop or even floor or trouble or wobble ? He stopped Mike Williams, a fringe contender/prospect who never amounted to much. Washed up versions of Greg Page, Trevor Berbick - he didn't stop. He hit them plenty. McCall obviously not. Jesse Ferguson, Tony Tucker - no. Any objective observer would say Douglas had no record or rep for being a big puncher.
I dunno Tyson kinda did turn teh tide of teh Bummy Douglas fight based on punch resistance - he got teh ****ing **** RAPED out of him with CRISP-COMBOS And JOLTING-JABS like a HUMAN-PUNCHBAG for 7 Rounds of BRUTAL BEATING in a row then dropped Big Bus for 14 seconds with a KO-Uppercut in Round 8. i KNOW it does not count cos teh ref decides how long he wants to make a 10 second count in any fight, BUT you see my point right?? :think Dempsey how many survived protracted beatings did he??? :huh:huh:huh Like being KTFO cold as a corpse by a single-punch in 1 minute of Round 1 by Fireman Jim Flynn, a BUM with a shitty record of 36-18-16 VS v.**** opposition. :rofl OR are you so impressed by Dempsey turning around a fight with Caveman Firpo based on being KO'd outside of teh ring And having to be helped back up And through teh ropes by a journalist after a longcount where he was really KTFO??? DONT dare pretend lightheavy Tunney gave Dempsey a beating cos it was really a boxing-masterclass schooling with no beating involved. :deal Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!:smoke
Exactly HOW MANY good punches did 3 YEARS RETIRED, 38 YEAR OLD, SHOT-TO-**** FAT Willard, who trained down teh Local Pub guzzling cheap lager And gobbling pork-scratchings, land on Dempsey's chin??? :huh:huh:huh
He didn't give him "a" beating, it was two. After the first one, Dempsey's eyes had been beaten closed so badly that he had to be guided to Tunney's corner to congratulate him.
Don't get it twisted. Tunney was a puncher. Same with Carpentier. Carpentier reminds me of Sergio Martinez, but with more moves. Just cuz a dude is little, don't mean he can't punch. ****, look at Dempsey. He beat the **** outta 245 lb Williard who fights exactly like Vitali Klitschko. And I don't see Vitali Klitschko gettin the **** beat outta him.
Yeah, and Douglas hit plenty chins on top-contender-level fighters. But only Tyson's cracked. Tyson was getting hurt quite early on in the fight. I'm not saying he had a weak chin but with most fighters getting KO'd by Buster Douglas would be good reason to doubt 'Iron' durability. With Tyson it gets spun into PROOF of a great chin !?
Sorry to intervene but I think this is strange reasoning. Imagine the following alternative universe. In this universe, Ruddock lands exactly the same punches on Tyson, and drops him in both fights. The fights otherwise end the same (Tyson TKO7 & W12). Tyson also got dropped by Tucker's left uppercut in the 1st (which in our actual universe only wobbled him), but came back to win a decision. Now, based on your criteria, this alternative Tyson with weaker punch resistance would actually have a better chin because he could say he got knocked down but came back to win it. Don't get me wrong, it takes a ton of heart and courage to win a fight in which you're dropped. But some career circumstances can prevent that from happening, for instance: -Having a great chin; I don't doubt Chuvalo's heart for a second, despite him never having shown the ability to get back up and win. -Having fights either won easily, or lost badly, but not having matches that are won or lost by a small margin. In the latter category you have the chance to win after tasting the canvas. In the former, not so much. Tyson fits both these criteria. However, the fact remains that all of Tyson's losses are by stoppage, even if he shipped a huge amount of punishment in all of them (well, not counting the last fights where he quit). It seems to be a mental issue more than single-punch resistance. So in the end, this question comes down to semantics - what defines a "chin" ? Do I see Dempsey surviving the bombs that Lewis threw at Tyson for 8 rounds? No way. Do I see Dempsey survive several rounds of "intermediate" punishment against Holyfield? Yes, I can imagine he lasts longer than Tyson there. It seems that against a puncher or boxer-puncher, Tyson's chin is better, but when it comes to surviving swarmers or high stamina boxers, Dempsey is probably more durable*. *I am making this assessment on a pound for pound basis; absolute comparison is nonsensical. Look at the tremendous difference in skill and athleticism between similar sized opponents: Douglas/Lewis and Willard, or Ruddock with Firpo.