Jack Dempsey v Muhammad Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by manbearpig, Mar 11, 2012.


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  1. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    I put Jack Dempsey's name first because he is white and should get top billing.

    Who wins?

    Have fun
     
    manbearpig, Mar 11, 2012
    manbearpig, Mar 11, 2012
    #1
  2. Guyfawkes

    Guyfawkes Than who was phone?! Full Member

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    if Tunney beats Jack twice rather handily, just imagine what Ali would do
     
    Guyfawkes, Mar 11, 2012
    Guyfawkes, Mar 11, 2012
    #2
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think there is one class above Jack Dempsey in terms of quality and I think he is in it.

    I also think that Ali enjoys certain stylistic advantages and the combination of the two makes him a reasonable favourite prime for prime.

    However.

    Demspey would beat Ali either shortly before or shortly after his prime. That is, Ali would need to be at his very best, because before he was the finished article and after he started to slip, his weaknesses play to Dempsey's considerable strengths.
     
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    #3
  4. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    I am a huge Tunney fan, but he caught Dempsey at the right time. Ali at his best would beat that Dempsey. A prime Dempsey would run Ali out of the ring. Ray Arcel thought the same, and I don't think Eddie Futch would've picked Ali.
    Ali had trouble with pressure and Dempsey was more than Frazier.
     
    greynotsoold, Mar 11, 2012
    greynotsoold, Mar 11, 2012
    #4
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I've heard this before, and I don't really think it's true in any meaningful way. Certainly with Foreman, Frazier x2, Norton x2, Patterson x2, Chuvalo x2, Bonavena on his ledger, he has beaten more good and great ones than most.
     
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    #5
  6. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    has to be prime for prime, theres no point in giving an edge to either fighter by talking bout pre and post because where does it end? Hunsaker Clay v Toledo Dempsey? Williams Ali v Flynn Dempsey?

    Both at their best? Ali wins handily enough but not without an eventful first half of the fight. After 6 or 7, Ali pulls away with maybe even a late late stoppage (assuming its a 15 rounder)
     
    johnmaff36, Mar 11, 2012
    johnmaff36, Mar 11, 2012
    #6
  7. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    He certainly had trouble with Frazier, in every fight, with Norton as well, and Chuvalo had alot of success despite losing. He beat Bonavena pretty easily, if memory serves, and pressure was not really Patterson's game. Dempsey was a true, in your face on top of you punching hard pressure fighter.
    I think he was better at it than Frazier, being more of a two handed fighter, and certainly faster and better than Chuvalo.
     
    greynotsoold, Mar 11, 2012
    greynotsoold, Mar 11, 2012
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well Frazier is perhaps the best pressure fighter that ever lived at the weight. It's hard to imagine any boxer at any weight that wouldn't have trouble with that fighter. The trouble Norton brought was a bit more interesting of course, but Ali's record against pressure fighters is basically exceptional.
     
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    #8
  9. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Don't be disengenuous GF. Two can play this game...
    Just imagine if Ali loses to Leon Spinks, Trevor Berber, kod by Larry Holmes. Just imagine what Jack Dempsey in his prime with 25 first round kos would do ??? As I said 2 can play this game...
    P.S. you know that the Dempsey of the Tunney fights, did not have a fight for THREE YEARS, and without a tune-up fight, at 32 years was a slow shell of himself, as I KNOW that the Ali who lost to Spinks and Berbick was ALSO a SHELL of himself...Cheers...
     
    burt bienstock, Mar 11, 2012
    burt bienstock, Mar 11, 2012
    #9
    djanders likes this.
  10. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

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    Hey Mr.DJ....MCgrain, you really overrate Dempsey And its a pain!! :yep

    Toledo Jack "Hypejawb Hobo" Dempsey DOES beat young Cass Clay of 1960-1963 And SUPER-SHOT Ali of 1978-1981. BUT any Ali of 1964-1977 whups "Toledo" Jack 10/10 times. :bbb


    Foreman Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!:rasta
     
    Foreman Hook, Mar 11, 2012
    Foreman Hook, Mar 11, 2012
    #10
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I overate him, I underrate him...it's amazing really what Dempsey can do to a guy.
     
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 11, 2012
    #11
  12. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There you go again ! Race, race, race...I try to be civil with you MBP, but
    you are beyond redemption...Enjoy your race baiting...
    And to think that ESB got rid of a slew of fine, serious POSTERS,and keeps trolls...I'm probably next...So be it....:-(
     
    burt bienstock, Mar 11, 2012
    burt bienstock, Mar 11, 2012
    #12
  13. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    I'm doing what is right for the time I live in. Don't criticise me, I am merely the product of my environment.
     
    manbearpig, Mar 11, 2012
    manbearpig, Mar 11, 2012
    #13
  14. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You know what ? You are not to be taken seriously..:hi:
     
    burt bienstock, Mar 11, 2012
    burt bienstock, Mar 11, 2012
    #14
  15. Kendom

    Kendom Member Full Member

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    I think Ali beats him pretty handily, Dempsey didn't put pressure the same way Frazier did and was not as good at cutting off the ring. Frazier would not have allowed Tommy Gibbons to go fifteen rounds with him. Ali's faster and more dangerous Tunney and after a rough few rounds, takes it to a UD
     
    Kendom, Mar 11, 2012
    Kendom, Mar 11, 2012
    #15
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