Joe Bugner vs Duane Bobick in 1977 , 12 rds

While I agree that Bobick's chin was much better than Dunn's, the fact remains that Bobick's durability fell short of world class standards. This was suspected even from the early days of his pro career, as ringsiders noted that he was sometimes stunned and rocked even by ham-and-egg opponents.

Do you realize that your argument is bizarre? You are saying that Bugner lacked durability, and that Bobick had it. Anyone who knows their boxing history realizes that it's the opposite: Bugner was renown for durability as his strength, and Bobick renown for durability as his weakness.

Why don't you compare their respective fights against Ron Lyle for evidence? Lyle put Bobick out cold in the amateurs (see youtube). Meanwhile, Bugner took Lyle's best shots as a pro.

And please...no more arguments to the effect that Lyle was a weak puncher because he was 35 years old when he met Bugner...

 

Duane Bobick really took a licking by the sportswriters too.

He really didn't deserve that bashing.

Pat Putnam (Sports Illustrated) after Bobick's fight with Ken Norton.

'Make him 38-1'
'The bell rang,,,,,,Bobick stepped out,,,,and he became America's Great White Hopeless'

 

It was totally a cut. The ref brought Bugner to the doctor and decided to stop it- end of story.

He has plenty. That's why I brought up the Dunn fight: when he was facing opponents with questionable chins, Bugner could be effectively aggressive.

Bobick was hurt badly from the very first right hand and staggered around before being nearly KO'd and coming up with rubber legs. If that's "taking many of them", then you are easily impressed.

Seriously? Do you really want to be the first person ever to argue that Bugner didn't have a proven chin?

What Bobick proved in his career is that he could win the "build-me ups", but his chin and tendency to choke on the big stage cost him all of his important bouts as a pro. What reason is there to think that he'd do any better against Bugner?

(1) Holmes was green and while Bobick was younger he was much closer to his prime level.

(2) Holmes didn't spar with Ali before facing Bobick.

Are you seriously suggesting that a fight in which a boxer gets sparked in one round by someone who was a swarmer rather than a slugger proves that Bobick's chin was not terrible?

I wonder how highly you would rate his chin if he'd made it into the second round!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RICD8ojVQbE[/ame]

2:42 - the first big punch that Norton lands and Bobick's legs turn to jelly. That is an awful chin for a world class fighter.

I also notice, looking at the fight again, that Bobick failed to meet the count: he's down at 3:07 and only starts to rise at 3:18.

That doesn't bode well against another top 10 performer. Even if he could go the distance with Bugner, what makes you think he could win a decision if he had terrible defence and terrible inaccuracy?

Hittable AND chinny, then? Getting knocked out in one round twice by two non-ATG punchers is a sign of a bad chin. The fact that it took combinations rather than single punches is no great achievement, since Norton always tended to do damage with multiple punches rather than knocking guys out with one punch Julian Jackson-style. Amir Khan took combinations from Bredis Prescott; it doesn't change the fact that he was sparked in a single round.

Bugner wasn't a puncher, but he was a classy boxer who could land combinations. I know of nothing in Bobick's career to suggest that he could survive against such a task. All Bugner has to do is land a good combination once, given Bobick's lack of survival skills.

 

I agree with everything you say here, with two exceptions.

1. I believe Norton was indeed a one punch KO artist. Certainly he couldn't hit as hard as a prime Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, etc., but he could still bomb. Remember his one punch KO of Randy Stephens?

2. Generally, Bugner didn't project much power into his rights and left hooks. He was very inconsistent in this respect. Sometimes he could sit on his punches and do big damage: he hurt Joe Frazier several times (in the 4th and 10th rounds), and Frazier himself attested to Bugner's power. He put Jurgen Blin down for the count, and showed true power in blitzing Dino Dennis wtih a single right hand. But these moments were exceptions...for the most part, there was something missing in terms of his power. I don't know why.

Of course, Bugner beats Bobick. No doubt. The only question is whether Bugner gets the stoppage.

 

The more I look at this fight,,,,,,,the better this match-up looks.

Can't see either man getting hurt, despite each others weaknesses.

Unless someone gets cut bad, this fight looks like it could go the distance.

Throw out the Norton fight (Bobick got 'Stage Fright"), and this would be a
grind-em-out kind of fight.

If the Norton fight never happened, and an undefeated Duane Bobick fought Joe Bugner in 1977, I'm sure Duane would have been the prohibitive favorite.

Lets not forget, Joe Bugner retired after his 'forgetable' performance versus Muhammad Ali II in June 1975.
Joe was so embarrassed, that he quit at age 25. Only to comeback to blast out Richard Dunn.

 

Can you honestly envisge Bobick lasting the distance against the 1973 & '75 versions of Ali ? Or even the '73 Frazier or '77 Lyle ?

 

Bugner was a European champion with a concrete chin ... he was far more accomplished than Bobick and I see him winning an easy decision or possibly a stoppage ..

 

So do I.

 

Duane wasn't just a hopelessly slow starter (by his own admission in the post fight interview after Tate), he was a sucker for a right, holding his left fatally low for an attrition oriented infighter and brawler of his ilk. I can't see him stopping the well schooled Bugner's own right.

As for Joe, he needed a master motivator in his corner, somebody to light a fire under his arse. We saw Bugner's dander up against Dunn, and John Denis really pissed him off. (Earlier, Dino had called Cooney a "virgin" and a "***" at their weigh-in, stuck his finger in Gerry's face, and got deservedly slugged for it.) If Bugner was competing today, and I was his pharmacist, I'd overdose him on norepinephrine to fire up his brain. I was on a cocktail of Effexor and Strattera in 2004, and experienced "white hot anger" as a result. (Fortunately, I knew that the cause of these volatile emotions was the consequence of an adverse neurochemical reaction, and had a ready supply of clonazepam on hand to quickly counteract it.) Ali hinted he may have been too nice a guy to be punching for a living.

 

Yep.

Duane walked into punches and because of his zero head movement, got hit clean by right hands. And he was the guy going forward at all times which didn't help. But that Houpe bout showed he really was not ready top 10 competition and should remain a regional fighter stacking up paydays. Sooner or later he does have to step up and bouts with guys like Stan Ward or Dino Dennis or someone similar, may have been a better opponent selection, as far as winning. But those would have been tough fights and he could have lost them as well. And Norton was slipping and a guy does have to step up eventually.

He was kind of like Tyrell Biggs in a sense that they moved him up to a big opportunity and he was not ready for it. The thing I could never understand was Futch accepting the bout with Knoetze and going on the road to fight a slugger like that, shortly after the Norton disaster. A big hitter was the last style to put him in with and you would not consider putting Bobick in with Shavers back then. Anything but the hitters.

 

I don't know if you followed the sport closely at the time, or where even alive at the time. Bobick was a regional fighter and had yet to step up and fight a name opponent until he fought Wepner. After that, it was Houpe. And he looked horrible in the fight and was not ready to make a quantum leap in competition. More like a step back and fight lesser opponents than Young Sanford. He was still beating the C grade heavies but had yet to put forth a good solid effort when facing the B grade guys even.

He was on the radar map then way Malik Scott is. Big impressive record but it's all against the C graders. And you keep waiting and waiting for him to fight a contemporary or at least a guy with a pulse.

 

Maybe Bobick would have gone the distance with the 1977 Ali,but we're talking about the '73 and '75 versions of Ali,whom Bugner faced. Bobick would NOT have seen the final bell against those incarnations of Muhammad.

 

Bugner for me. Boxing is all about levels, and for me, Bugner was more compettive at a higher level than Bobick was.

Bugner likely on points, although I could see a scenario where Bugner catches Bobick very early, or wears Duane down for a late TKO down the stretch.