Joe Bugner vs Duane Bobick in 1977 , 12 rds

Common Opponents

Duane Bobick

9/15/73....W KO 7......... - Manuel Ramos 24-23-2
2/6/76.....W DEC 10....... - Larry Middleton 22-6-2
10/2/76...W KO 6......... #9 Chuck Wepner 33-10-2


Joe Bugner

3/24/70....W Dec 8...... - Manuel Ramos 23-10-2
9/8/70.......W KO 3........- Chuck Wepner 20-6-2
11/24/71....L Dec 10......- Larry Middleton 16-1-1

 

Of course, you are aware that comparing common opponents tells us little bout how Bobick and Bugner would fare against each other? Common opponents aren't good measuring sticks because Bobick and Bugner had different styles, and thus different outcomes, against common foes.

 

Agreed. The '73 and '75 Ali would have stopped Bobick. Ali's right hand was still swift and jolting in those days, and his capacity to follow up with lightning quick combos was still excellent.

I cannot imagine Duane blocking Ali's punches.

 

Frazier and Futch must have sold Bobick out. They must have reached a point where they figured they didn't want to deal with him anymore, so they took the best purse offer they could find, which came from South Africa. This is called "cashing in." It only happens when a prospect has lost his upward mobility, and the manager wants to turn him into an opponent.

I remember thinking, when I first heard that Bobick was scheduled for Knoetzee, that this is not a good match up for Duane.

 

Yes, Bugner would have beaten Bobick. But, in those days, being a European champion didn't mean much. This is because the level of competition in Europe, in the '70s heavyweight division, was so mediocre.

In fact, Bugner and his manager Andy Smith admitted that holding the European belt was actually impeding Joe's progress. This is because Bugner was constantly mandated to fight the number one European contender, who was inevitably a mediocrity. Taking such fights prevented Bugner from focusing on higher level American opposition.

Finally, in late '75, Bugner dumped the Euro title rather than defending it against mandatory challenger Jean Pierre Coopman. He made the right decision...KO'ing Coopman wouldn't have gotten him anywhere.

 

Not saying that the common opponents would dictate the outcome,,,,,,,
just using as a tool for information.

Just like saying that because Ron Lyle KO'd Duane in the amateurs, he would KO him in the Pro Ranks. No one knows.

Maybe the only comparison, could be the Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner, Scott LeDoux, Duane Bobick connection.

As for Joe Bugner vs. Duane Bobick in 1977,,,,,,,,this still looks like a
toss-up bout.

 

I disagree with both of these comments.

Concerning LeDoux-Lyle, it's important to remember that Lyle faded very badly after 1977. He was just a shell of his former self against LeDoux in 1979. Lyle's aging was particularly apparent a little later, when he was shockingly KO'd in two rounds by Lynn Ball.

I don't think LeDoux would have survived the Lyle of 1977.

As for Lyle, the last of his really good efforts occured against Foreman in 1976. That fight took a lot out of Lyle, I think. He was fading when he met Young, Bugner, and Ward afterwards. Lyle was shot by the time he faced LeDoux.

 

A Good Read

May 1977

He's Not Pretty, He's Just Persistent

Sometime Boy Gravedigger and Olympic Flop, Duane Bobick, The Great White Hope
of the Momenet, Approaches a Nice Payday with favored Ken Norton

Duane Bobick, the #5 Ranked Heavyweight in the World, will receive $250,000 for
his scheduled bout with #3 Ranked Ken Norton. Bobick who is 38-0, has one impressive victory,
a 6th Round Knock-out over oft-beaten Chuck Wepner (ranked #9 at the time of their bout).

A victory over Ken Norton, will put Bobick at the top of the hill in the list of
challengers for Champion Muhammad Ali's crown. Though Bobick has his critics,
there are more than a few experts who believe he just might have the right style to
defeat the experienced Norton. One of those experts is Angelo Dundee, who thinks
that Bobicks hard body attack will wear Norton down, and open him up for Bobicks
straight right, which is the Minnesota brawler's best punch.

 

Bugner's win over Wepner was far more decisive than Bobick's. Bugner dominated Wepner from the opening bell, ripping him with slashing combos, and opening a cut that led to the ending.

By contrast, Bobick struggled with Wepner, absorbed a fair amount of punishment, and took over only in the 5th round, pounding a tiring Wepner unti the ref stopped the bout in the 6th. The ref's call may have been premature: Wepner seemed to be hanging in there, based on what I recall.

Incidentally, I think the ref's call in the Bobick-Wepner affair may have been due to cuts as well. I'm pretty certain it was.

 

Again: Bobick and Bugner met these opponents at vastly different stages of their careers. Add to that the fact Bobick and Bugner had different styles. So, an opponent comparison simply doesn't tell us much.

Ramos was on the downside when he lost to Bugner in 1970. He was completely shot when Bobick stopped him several years later. No comparison: Ramos was not the same fighter.

Middleton was at his best when he beat the very young, inexperienced, and sub-prime Bugner in 1971. By contrast, Middleton was burned out and in the last stage of his career when he lost to Bobick in 1976.

The Wepner that lost to Bobick in 1976 was superior to the Wepner who lost to Bugner in 1970. I'll agree on that. But even so, Bugner beat Wepner more easily and decisively than Bobick did.

But regardless...most people who really know their boxing understand that common opponents is not a good way to compare guys. There's no argument here: few would disagree.

 

I never assumed anything. Not even close.

I said that even though Bugner would beat Bobick, it's questionable if Joe could win inside-the-distance. As for Ali, I said the '73 to '75 Ali would stop Bobick. The '77 Ali probaby wouldn't have.

My Ali judgment is based on how he did against the era's toughest and best fighters. It's also based on how Ali fought, what combos he tended to throw, and the uncanny way that he used to be able to pierce a guy's guard with rights...thrown straight down the pike or up the middle.

 

A good 1977 fight would have been Evangelista vs. Bobick. That would have been very competitive. I think Duane's superior strength -- his sheer brawniness -- would have won the day. Bobick by mid to later round stoppage.