I noticed a few over the top comments about Martinez after the Macklin fight. Shortly before the fight, I made a thread saying I thought he was overrated by some and I stand by that. As much as I like Martinez, and I've been on the train for a few years, I just don't see him as any sort of great fighter. The guy he beat to really make his name, Kelly Pavlik, was another. When he was ruling, fans were asking how he'd fare against the likes of Monzon, LaMotta and the likes of them. I'm a big Pavlik fan but I've never considered him to be a great fighter and I think now that he's suffered a couple of losses, most people would agree that he was never great. He was just a very solid middleweight, probably around the same level as Nino Benvenuti. To me, being a great fighter isn't about looking 'good' against a few highly rated boxers. It's something which has to be really earned. I'd consider Joe Calzaghe a great fighter but I wouldn't have before he beat Hopkins. Despite having well over 40 wins, 20 defenses and being the top middleweight for years, he wasn't a great fighter until he beat Hopkins, I don't think. Greatness in the modern era is fightlers like JCC Sr., Whitaker, De La Hoya, Holyfield, Mayweather, Morales, Pacquiao, JMM and so on. It shouldn't be used to describe fighters who dominate a poor division, like Wonjongkam, or those who have serious flaws. When they lose, like Pavlik did, those who claim greatness look foolish. Modern fans are far too liberal with the use of the word "great". At the moment, I think there are about 5 or 6 truly great fighters and all but one, Mayweather, is close to retirement.
It's part of the game. Each generation think they have more special athletes than past ones, but there's also a massive cloud over those experts eyes who think fighters 50 year ago would own anyone today.
I understand where you're coming from, Jack. I think a lot of people think you single out Klitschko, just because he's someone that you follow and have opinions about, but you're not and it fits in with your philosophy as a whole.
Mayweather, Pacquiao, Hopkins, Jones Jr, Morales, JMM, Holyfield....I think that's a lock on the active ATG's
Bert Sugar has got the biggest pair of rose tinted glass's ever, every time I hear him speak I get the urge to track him down and punch him in his stupid face.
Andre Ward has the potential to be great, and after than I really do struggle for the new generation.
Comparing Pavlik to Benvenuti is an insult to the latter. Pavlik would be more on the level of someone like Doug DeWitt.
Probably because this era hasnt seen too many greats. People like to associate greatness with something they are involved to make themselves feel better But I agree with the mentions of JCC,Whittaker, Morales, Mayweather, Pac, Holyfield, Lewis etc etc they are all truly great fighters