Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Well Bob Fitzsimmons fought everybody worth fighting in his era, up to and including Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson.

Therfore if he is the mark you want to beat, then it is not enough to go after the best middleweights, supermiddleweights and light heavyweights.

You have to go after the top heavyweights as well.

It might sound harsh, but that is where the bar has been set.

 

Going after the top heavies and getting KTFO 3 times would have helped Roy's legacy?

 

Quite frankly, yes.

It would have been a lot less damaging than getting starched by Antonio Tarver, and if he had made the fights competitive he would have been given credit for it.

Furthermore, there were some name heavyweights around, who were ready to be taken.

 

Of course Roy wins this, he shouldn´t fool around to long though or he might get caught by something heavy.

Anyway, he´s no way anywear near Bob greatness-wise.

 

lufcrazy,

Hi mate, I agree, but as discussed they were other factors.

Jackson, that would have been a great fight, but Roy was a baby when Julian was in his prime. The window of opportunity was too small. But I agree that would have been a great fight. I remember watching Roy demolish Thomas Tate in a few rounds, after he'd fought for 12 rounds against Jackson though. Not that, that would have had any bearing on what would have happened if Roy had've fought Julian though.

G-Man, Roy grew up around him, and had a lot of respect for him. I think if it wasn't for the tragedy with Nigel, they would have fought at some point. I also think that Gerald would have moved up to 175 eventually.

Benn, I've discussed in my other post with McGrain.

Dariusz, A shame that fight could never get made. Roy had 3 of the major belts and Dariusz had the other one. You couldn't have expected Roy to have gone to Germany at that point, and Dariusz could never agree to come to the U.S. and seemed happy to defend his title in Germany. This is the stick that Roy constantly gets beaten with, But the blame for the fight not coming off, can't be thrown just at Roy's door.

Holyfield, Roy's advisor Murad Muhammad had talks with Evander and his team, just prior to Evander's third fight with Ruiz. Roy had great respect for him and wanted the fight for a long time. Roy Snr was always the stumbling block, and he talked Roy out of it a few times aswell as blocking him fighting Buster Douglas in the late nineties. But in 2002 Roy asked Murad to get him the fight. Everything was agreed upon verbally and Evander went into the fight with Ruiz.

Evander lost to Ruiz and Roy had a decision to make. Evander's offer was still open, but he thought that he wouldn't get any credit for fighting Evander at that point. So he turned down Evander and persued a fight with Ruiz who was the WBA Champion. There is a myth that Roy handpicked John Ruiz. But he didn't, and if Holyfield had've beaten Ruiz, Roy would have fough Evander Holyfield.

After the Ruiz fight, Roy desperately wanted a fight with Tyson. Roy had always been a huge fan of Mike's and the pair met on a few occasions. Murad tried to make the fight with Shelly finkle, but they had a contractual dispute with Showtime and the fight couldn't get made. I think Mike was finished at that point, and Roy could have beaten him aswell as Holyfield.

But as I say, you can't fight everyone. If he'd have beaten Benn, Collins, Eubank, Calzaghe earlier, but hadn't have fought Hopkins and Toney, we'd be probably having a debate on here, as to why he didn't face them, and what had've happened if he had've done.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Once upon a time a caveman was the best scientist in the world due to inventing a spear. He still doesn't rate over Einstein.

Fitzimmons would get beat by Carl Froch today

 

He was a young mw but I think he'd have beaten both.

After beating ruiz he'd have been better staying at hw cherry picking legends imo.

I'm not assigning blame. I'm suggesting they'd be improvements to his resume.

 

Unfortunately, by the 2000's, they had invented real heavyweights. Roy and his dad were too smart to hang out in that division too long.

By the by, Ruiz beats any and every version of Fitz, also.

 

Janitor,

Hi mate, good post and some good points. But the two era's are Worlds apart. There was only one Champion per division when Fitz fought, and there wasn't as many politics as what they are today. I think it's totally unfair to even compare the two era's.

 

People like to compare fighters that fought in different eras of boxing,but the reality is no one knows how old school boxers,and I mean really old School like Jeffries,Corbett,Kid Moccoy,Tom Sharkey,Bob Fitszimmons,Peter Maher,Mexican Pete Everret,Peter Jackson,Jack Johnson,Sam Langford and my favorite Tommy Burns, would do today,they probably(im saying PROBABLY not CERTAINLY) wouldn't do very well because the fights were slow-paced and at that time 1890-1910 techniques were a bit rudimentary. But it really is difficult to tell how these guys would do without any clear footage.except from Johnson.

 

There's a very good case allot of these men avoided Jones, some have admitted to it. Holyfield admitted ontheropes to turning down 25million to face Roy Jones after Jones beat Holyfield, Jones also pursued a fight with Tyson. Both Lilles and Hopkins turning down a career high 1 million to face RJJ in '96:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1996-10-04/sports/18024606_1_quartey-rory-holloway-bruce-seldon

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1997-02-19/sports/18041425_1_frankie-liles-easy-fight-duva

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAP2JdvnDkY[/ame]


[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjvBqSDJJoA&feature=related[/ame]

Steve Collins was offered US$3million to fight Jones but wanted more

Jackson/McClellan - McClellan was DKP, was Jackson too, hard to make, both have punchers chances no doubt. Both have defences that Roy would have a field day with

SMW - Benn/Eubank - Eubank has admitted he'd only fight Jones if Jones was a mandatory. Benn - both wanted it, DKP wanted Jones to sign away his career

Liles - bigger fight

Darius - both made plenty of cash and wanted more money than anyone was prepared to give them. Darius was happy fighting in Germany against competition inferior to that of Jones

I think McClellan, Jackson, Darius and Lilles are bigger losses than Collins. I don't think HBO wanted Collins either from what I've read.

Toney threw away his chance of a rematch by losing the decisions to Griffin/Thadzi

Don King demanded Jones accept a long term contract, probably on bad terms. Jones proposed each fighter get 10million to make the fight on a 1 fight basis. Here's an article

NIGEL Benn is sacrificing pounds 3million and a chance to be the true super-middleweight champion of the world.

On offer is a fight with America's fabulous Roy Jones, who spectacularly stopped Merqui Sosa of the Dominican Republic inside two rounds at Madison Square Garden, New York, on Friday night.
And not even Benn will dispute Roy's post-fight boast, after throwing 20 unanswered punches: "Tonight I showed who is the best fighter in the world, pound for pound."
Greg Fritz, of Jones' management team, accuses: "Benn and his promoter, Frank ******, are sitting on their butts. They are letting slip the match the world wants to see."
Deal
Fritz claims the stalemate is due to the English camp's liaison with Don King.
"King demands options on Roy if he should beat Nigel," explains Greg. "We will never agree to that.
"Fair's fair - we want no piece of Benn. Why can't there be a straight deal with no strings?
"The pounds 3million purse is guaranteed. If Nigel can walk away from it, he's a very rich and lucky man."
The American allegations anger ******. "I haven't received a single call from Jones or his people," he stresses. "How can they say what Nigel, Don or myself want?
"They talk about a meeting without even checking we're available. It's totally unprofessional. They are freezing Jones out of the world picture.
"The truth is that Jones needs Nigel to make decent money. He earns buttons compared with Benn and Steve Collins."
Jones comes to London next Sunday for talks about a basketball career with London Towers. He already plays minor league in Florida.
But Roy still longs to mix it with Benn. From his Pensacola estate, he confirms: "I think a lot about Benn. He's the one fighter out there who motivates me.
"If I box again, I want it to be with Benn."
Fritz insists: "There will be a meeting with ****** and Benn while we are in England. But frankly, we are not hopeful.
"As long as King seeks to influence Roy's future, there's nothing more to say."
Benn's admiration for Jones is unstinting. "I don't mind being rated second to him," he says. "I have so much respect."
Yet the Dark Destroyer adds with menace: "If the fight happens, Jones will be tested as never before. We'll see if he can take it, as well as dish it out!"
Jones' passion for basketball would make Benn's job easier. The American has just been diagnosed as having chronic knee trouble, brought on by daily twisting and jumping.
Sparring partners report Roy has cut back on running, and even limps in the ring.
That's why Benn is suddenly an attractive - and maybe final - payday

Jones had every intention to fight Benn but King was obstacle !! I don't know about those figures stated before but at the end of the day it was Kings involevement even ****** recognized that ..Make sure you post all the facts before you say someone has ducked someone or before you uses someone else post!

 

It is one of the ironies of Jones's career, that he held so many titles over so many divisions, but arguably never established lineage in any of them.

In most respects having a single champion makes things harder for a prospective challenger, but for a belt collector like Jones, it might force the lineage within his sphere of influence.