Valid point. The reports i've seen don't say it was a draw (in which case the extra point makes the difference) I'll look into it again but i've heard it referred to as a terrible decision in most reports i've read. As I say i'll look into it again.
McG, I agree,,,,,,,,, How about the Dempsey who destroyed Ed 'Gunboat' Smith, and the Ali who got his brains scrambled by Larry Holmes.
A few seconds after he started a thread about himself Funny, these guys who refuse to accept certain facts in the face of overwhelming evidence have this fantastic serenity about them...choklab is like that too. It's a curious phenomenon that those who seem to be the "most" wrong, if I can put it like that, seem most at ease with their opinions. I suppose once you've decided, "**** it, that's that", facts and stuff take on less importance than they do for the rest of us, thus having less impact? At least this one contributes here and there though...
McG, Aren't we full of ourselves today,,,,,,,,,,, OK, you convinced me with your wisdom and knowledge,,,,,only you can have an opinion worth noting.
Lol choklab is relentless in his regurgitation of crap. His mind is so closed it makes me wonder why he ever enters into debates. He reminds me of mag and mendoza. No matter how many times people shoot down an argument, he'll just repost his initial statements again and again.
Well some guys have a position on a certain thing and that's really all they're interested in getting across. Oddly enough, this almost exclusively seems to relate to heavies.
It's no good huddling Dempsey up with Frazier, or using Tunney as a gauge. Once again equations are being formulated in that coarse way where 'bigger and faster' is forming the tip of the arguments. Ali being 'bigger' is something Ted Spoon feels has the potential to backfire more so than prevail. Ali was great at breaking your balance with his patented 'neck-yank', but when we offset this against not only how capable Jack was inside, but how efficient he was at using your size against you then we get nearer to truth. The young Dempsey's sweeping head was slippery indeed, more elusive than Marciano's, Frazier's and Tyson's. On average, this is probably the truth. In the 'Battle of the Long Count' Tunney noted just how hard it was to hit Dempsey with a good one during a fight in which the rounds where closer than the original. Further, Tunney's apparent control of Dempsey was due to his own skill in the clinches where he effectively locked the Mauler down, so to speak. After hooking up with Harry Greb five times Tunney got the 'lock-n'-pop' routine down to the 'T', better than any heavyweight. Again, this is probably the truth. Gene stencilled out how to beat Dempsey years before facing him. Ali presents different problems, but with those problems comes different weaknesses. Frazier undoubtedly had elements in his game which were better suited to foiling Ali's lazing ways but Dempsey too would have elements in his game which would trouble Muhammad tremendously; his unsuspecting mallet of a cross, his kidney, liver and general organ drumming. The heavyweights with the fleetest feet would wage war in ring centre for the majority of a strangely strategic, visually pleasing set-to with Dempsey injecting explosive cameos in between trying to avoid that crisp one-two. It's a terribly hard fight to call. Whoever prepared better and came in with the tighter plan would pull out the decision (a stoppage for either seems unlikely). One thing Ted Spoon believes; Dempsey would give Ali 'Frazier-esque' hell, just in a different way.
This is a very rosy-hued estimation of Dempsey. His defense was not that great on film. He was very open to right hands, and anyone possessing a lead right like Ali's would have a field day. Furthermore, once Jack got in the fray, he tossed out so much of his skills, fighting fully squared up, off-balance, low left hand. At times, even against marginal opposition, his footwork looks horrible. Unless, Dempsey's greatest moments were not filmed or have not survived in filmed form, I just don't see the greatness in regards to his era translating to a more modern game.
Although I favor Ali in this matchup it would be no picnic for him. Jack had fast hands on the inside and could punch like hell with both of them. One of his best punches was the one the one that Ali was susceptible to and that is a left hook. Couple that with a fast powerful right and Ali had better not take Dempsey lightly. Assuming that he doesn't I feel his mobility and hand speed would win the day for him. No matter what however, it would be an entertaining fight. On a side note...I certainly hope we don't lose Burt Bienstock. He brings knowledge and class to this site and I always enjoy reading his posts. We all share the same love for Boxing so let's be civil and debate maturely. There's enough incivility in the world today. This site should be a safe haven from it.
Thank you gj. I am winding down my time here reluctantly as the political overtones, and personal insults to me have taken it's toll....It is one thing to debate boxing with other posters, but to inject politics in boxing debates was not what I anticipated when i joined this great forum... Many cheers JG.:good
Ali had problems with left hookers his whole career..... Dempsey was a great left hooker.......with more power than Frazier, Cooper, etc....and I would say faster than anyone Ali ever faced... You can say that Ali was bigger and everything........but this fight would be surely hard to predict ! I have the impression that I said that in this thread weeks before , but anyway.....Can´t pick anyone with confidence here.....