ETM, I do more reading than posting. These fellas are absolute boxing scholars, so their compliments are something to be proud of. Looking forward to see some of your gems displayed.
The fact that ETM even knows who Ike Williams is puts him head and shoulders above 90% of the posters on ESB ESB we knew about ZOO before you
I think it's especially notable when you think of all the cases where a talented young fighter with not enough experience has been thrust in there with a veteran, (especially one who fights as dirty as Zivic) and it has turned into a complete ****ing disaster for the younger fighter. (Think Duran vs Davey Moore.) When Ray Robinson does it, not only did he kick ass, but it's one of his less talked about accomplishments.
Huge difference between making excuses for a fighter's losses and thinking your thread was utter shite.
Zivic times 2 as a one year pro is a very-very mind boggling indication of this stellar fighters abilities. Zivics comments in re Charlie Burley chanses vs Robinson....zilch!!...is yet another.
Bad, I am one of the few still kicking to have seen the greatest all around fighter EVER in his prime...Saw him several times at his best . He had to be seen to be truly appreciated...To give a small example of Ray Robinson's prowess, In Ray's first year he defeated ,the great rough and wily veteran Fritzie Zivic twice...In his first year...Amazing feat. I once saw Fritzie Zivic a few years after when he was 32 years old,facing a young dynamic Knockout artist from Philly called Billy Arnold...Billy Arnold had about 43kos in 45 bouts if I can recollect, and was called the "New Joe Louis". We at MSG in 1945, felt sorry for the old veteran Zivic, who upset the applecart and gave Billy Arnold a boxing lesson... To think that Ray Robinson 3 years earlier stopped Fritzie Zivic, when Robby was fighting pro for but one year, is an indication of the greatness of the best fighter I ever saw...Hands down...
This is definitely impressive..... Some young fans look at Zivic´s numbers with 65 losses and don´t understand how good he was at that time, a rough and tough era.....and how hard was fight against him....because Zivic knew every trick of the game, his effectiveness was based on his tricks, it was all about his experience and smartness...and even so a green SRR beat Zivic, that´s certainly special.....and speaks volumes about Ray´s own smartness....
Thats true. Well put. Also remember the mindset was different in those days. A loss wasnt looked at as the end of the world. A fighter could take a chance and if he lost it was viewed as a learning experiance. Billy Conn once said that if a fighter didnt have at least one loss going into a title shot he wasnt ready. Today fighters protect that 0 even if it means not learning their trade completley. Robinson`s consistancy at Welterweight is one of the most amazing achievements in the history of sports.
Yes,Fritzie had a bag of rough tricks. He could make his opponent damage HIMSELF. When an opponent covered his jaw and face, Zivic would shoot a barrage of uppercuts to his opponents elbows,which would result in his foe's gloves walloping his own protected jaw...CLEVER !!!