Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Vic-JofreBRASIL, Mar 19, 2012.


  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Isn't it funny, for e.g. Ezzard Charles loses about 17 of his last 45 and it's like these fights never existed. Granted he had more fights than Roy and some much harder battles but he was still a couple of years younger for many of these losses. There were losses prior too of course. With Jones it shows that he was never that good and quite fragile for the critics. Some incredibly considered him exposed. Jones is a very serious threat in historic standings :good
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I have the 10-disc collectors edition of Legends of Boxing. During a discussion about Ali-Frazier, a "proper" journalist, a newspaper man from Philly, I think, had been asked to sit in and during the discussion the two had a disagreement about Frazier's state of health after the FOTC. Sugar wanted to tell the story about Frazier's prolonged hospitalisation and our proper journalist (that I can't remember his name and would know Sugar by his silhouette alone tells it's own story) dismissed him out of hand, literally with a word and a wave of his hand.

    Sugar backed off immediately. This is a guy who had put Holmes at #10 on his HW list, knowing he was going to be sharing the studio with the man, then argued passionately for that placing right to his face. He also, in my opinion, looked momentarily devastated.

    For all that Sugar revelled in his "hated as much as loved" reputation, I think he genuinely wanted to be respected by "more serious" historians and newspaper men. Furthermore, he knew what he had to do to get - tone down the colour, double-source his facts and seek the truth rather than the legend. But he didn't do it. He didn't change. However you feel about the man, and I didn't particularly care for him, you have to give him the utmost respect for that.

    I sided with him over the Joe Frazier disagreement.
     
  3. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    if that's the same one as with chuvalo, i saw that as well and it was priceless:good
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's the one haha, i mean it's Larry, this isn't one of the nice retired HW's, Foreman would have been fine with that placement, but Holmes was just furious.
     
  5. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    it was a joy to watch. yeah, the assessments of bert on here are fair but **** could he ever tell a tale. a raconteaur at heart, facts weren't as important as entertainment.

    can't say that's always a bad thing
     
  6. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    That was the 1 where Holmes used his Ali win as a defence of his cause? I didn't think he was 'furious', more upset and looking mystified :lol:
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mystified, aye that's a better word, like wtf, who the ****, why the ****.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It was the show where he said lewis would be about 20 on his list :lol:
     
  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    18 or 19th I think, Lewis obviously rubbed him wrong and his list was biased to his favourites like many
     
  10. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I never had a problem with Bert Sugar. Even when he talked crap.
    He was a ballyhoo man.
    The fact that he was known as, or introduced as, the world's foremost "boxing historian" seemed to bother a lot on here.

    I suppose they could have stuck a boring geek off the internet on TV, or dragged some guy who is writing a biography of Speedy Dado out from under a pile of microfiche to bore the pants off of everyone, in the name of truth and accuracy.
    But the guy with the hat and cigar was probably the best option, for the good of boxing too.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The most important thing he did was with Ring magazine. He didn't really do much for "the good of boxing" outside of that, I doubt he created one single fan actually, sold one ticket, or enhanced one pay-per-view with his "colourful" boxing history. He got the top of a pretty shallow heap with his colour, but it was in no way "for the good of boxing."
     
  12. punk

    punk Well-Known Member Full Member

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    bob foster vs Jones is a great fight too
     
  13. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Boxing Illustrated was excellent when he had that.

    I disagree with what you're saying. His books were accessible and probably turned a lot of young fledgling fans on to the history of the sport and stimulated and deepened their interest.

    A title like "100 greatest fighters of all-time" ... what's not to like about that kind of book for a young kid just getting in to boxing and its history ?
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nobody goes out and buys "100 Greatest Fighters Of All Time" when they are not a boxing fan. It's a boxing fan's book.
     
  15. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    It's the kind of book I'd buy a 12-year-old boy who had shown some interest in boxing, just getting in to the sport. Sure, a boxing fan but someone who probably never heard of Sam Langford or Max Baer.

    A kid that might not develop a deep or lasting interest in boxing if not for the magazines and books and colourful stories that are being put out there.