Why All The Jones Jr Haters

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Finally, we have a debate.

Firstly, the steroid issue. I've discussed this with Headbanger on the thread "Did Roy lose when he stepped up competition at 175" It's there for all to see, and i'm not going to type it all up again. I'm sure you were on that threat when it was being discussed. If you want my opinion on it, it will take you 5 mins to find. Like I said, me and Head went at it over thee or four posts, and it was interesting. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But my gripe is as follows, Roy was supposedly caught in 2000 against Hall. But Metal, yourself and a handful of others, claim that he was taking Roids his whole career before he got caught in 2000 against Hall. What I'm saying is, everyday we hear Metal spouting this, but there's no proof is there? It's only your assumption/opinion. There is no proof that states Roy Jones abused Steroids from 1989-2000. None whatsoever.

Hopkins, again it's been discussed to death by myself. Hopkins told people he desperately wanted it. But he if he wanted as bad as what he said, then why didn't he accept 60/40? At the start of their famous interview, Bernard wants more money than Roy. Then afterwards he changes his mind and wants 50/50. Why is Roy going to give him 50/50? Roy already had a win over him! Do you think if Bernard had've beaten Roy in 93, he would have given Roy a 50/50 split? Don't be silly.

Bernard wanted the fight to avenge his loss. Roy wasn't bothered. He only considered it due to the pressure from the fans. The fight would have been at a catchweight. There wouldn't have been a title at stake. Roy was fighting two weight divisions above Hopkins at the time. So you expect Roy, the pound for pound no.1 fighter in the world, to lose weight, to fight a guy, who he hates, for no title, who he already has a win over for half of the purse?? Don't be stupid!

But I agree the fight should have been made. All they had to do, was to do what they did in 2010. 60% to the winner, and 40% to the loser. If it's a draw, it's a 50/50 split with a probable rematch, depending on the circumstances. Like I say, if Hopkins had've wanted it bad enough, he'd have taken the 40% It was an awful lot of money, even at 40% You can't lay all the blame at Roy's door. If Bernard had to come down in weight to fight a guy who he'd already beat, he wouldn't have even offered 40%

It's easy for Calzaghe to make a comment like that. And I think Joe would have tested him, but again, what did he do to get a fight with Roy? Nothing! Why would Roy in 2002 for example, persue a fight with Joe? Nobody outside of the U.K. knew who he was at that point. He didn't get noticed until Lacy in 2006. What do you mean King wasn't involved, so there was no excuse? I'm assuming you've typed that because you think Roy made that an excuse for the Benn fight?

You've already got various links that have been put up on this thread, that states they both wanted the fight, but Roy didn't want to be tied in. There's factual information that supports this. Go and have a look. I saw the Merchant interview. And I know Roy fought a few bums.

Again back to heavyweight issue. I'm sick of typing this. Roy verbally agreed to fight Evander, before his third fight with Ruiz. Ruiz threw a spanner inthe works by beating Holy. A fter the fight, Roy was offered the Evander fight. But, he turned it down because Ruiz had won, and he didn't think he'd credit for beating Evander at that point. So he asked his advisor Murad Muhammad to get him a Ruiz fight. Roy wanted to fight Evander for a long time. Roy snr blocked it on at least one occasion, aswell as blocking a Buster Douglas fight. So, if Evander had've beaten Ruiz in 2002, Roy would have fought him in 2003. He didn't cherry pick Ruiz, like most people say.

I agree Ruiz wasn't a great fighter. I'm not disputing that, but it was still a hell of a risk for Roy to take. Many fighters and respected journalists had Roy to lose that fight. You can't say he was tailor made for Roy, when Roy was outweighed naturally by nearly 4 stone. Roy had no idea how the extra weight would affect him. On the night of the fight, Roy was outweighted by over 2 stone. No Heavyweight is tailor made, for a guy who's coming up from 175 for the first time. Roy obviously had more ability, but you have to take other things into consideration. Like I keep saying, If was that easy, then more fighters would have done it.

He never fought Lennox Lewis you say. If you go back a few pages on this thread, you'll see the links that was posted, where Roy persued a fight with him. He wanted a fight with Lewis and Tyson, and he couldn't get one. There's factual information that backs this up. It was put on another thread by General Zod a few weeks ago. It makes very interesting reading. It was the outcome Lewis's fight with Vitalithat put a stop to it. Lewis never thought Vitali would be as hard as it was, and after the fight, he knew his time was up. Vitali was desperate for a rematch, everyone wanted to see it, after the 1st one, and Lennox wasn't interested. He didn't want a rematch for any amount of money.

Roy approached Lennox late 2003, and he told Roy, that he definately wasn't fighting anymore. The Tyson fight didn't come off, because of supposed contractual issue with Showtime. Roy came back down to 175 and the rest is history. But it was never Roy's intention to just go up for Ruiz and then come back. When he finally made his mind up in 2002 he wanted 2 or 3 fights there for big money. When Lewis and Tyson didn't come off, he wasn't interested in fighting any other Heavyweights. His options were limited, and Tarver had got under his skin.

The weight issue is not overated at all. Do some research, it will take you 5 mins. Roy got weighed on HBO'S scales before the fight. He was 193 and he was solid. It doesn't matter that he normally rehydrated from 175-183 for an average light heavy fight. The circumstances are completely different. For an average 175 fight, he cut weight to get ripped, then after the weigh in, he rehydrated half a stone. For the Ruiz fight, he wasn't cutting any weight at all. He added mass. He was a solid 193 pounds. For the Tarver fight he had to weigh in between 169-175. 175 is the limit. He went from a ripped 193 to a ripped 172/173. It was somewhere in the region of 20 pounds. I understand how you've worked your figures out, but as I say the circumstances are different.

He normally has to lose a little weight, to get from his walking around weight, to 175 for the weigh in. But for Ruiz, he didn't have to come down and get ripped from his walking around weight. He didn't have to cut any weight. As soon as he fight was signed, Mackie Shiltstone made him add mass.

8 months time is ra idiculousamount of time to go from a solid ripped 193, to a solid ripped 175. As I keep saying, hindsight is a wonderful thing. He should have hired Mackie to take him back down slowly, with maybe a fight at Cruiser on the way back. What Roy did was unhealthy. Don't take my word for it, do a little research. It's not like Toney or Hatton losing 20-20 of fat in camp. He burnt away all of his muscle fibres and took the protein out of his muscles. He basically shredded all of the goodness. If you look at his body from March 2003, and then look at his physique from Nov 2003, it's incredible.
All he did for months on end, was run.

He was dehydrated going into the Tarver and Johnson fights. He had nothing left after the 8th round against Tarver. Against Johnson, he was out cold for 3 mins, because he was so dehydrated. Again, there's factual information to back this up. The ringside doctor told Alton Merkerson, that Roy shouldn't have been fighting. How else can you explain Johnson winning every round against him?

The Tarver rematch was too late. The damage had already being done.

Again, explain to me how Glen Johnson beat him like he did? He won every round, knocked him cold, then lost to woods.

So either Johnson was a far better fighter than Roy, or Roy was severely drained from the weight. Which is it?

Are you going to tell me that Glen Johnson was a better fighter than Roy, and that's why he beat him? Roy beats Toney, Hopkins, Reggie, Ruiz, but he's not good enough to beat Glenn Johnson?

The only real question that needs answering is this one,

Pre Ruiz, would Glenn Johnson have beaten Roy Jones?

We all know the answer to that question.

pre Ruiz, Johnson would have had virtually no chance of beating Roy Jones.

So the weight loss must be the reason. It isn't an excuse. He lost all of his great attributes, after destroying his body in those 8 months. He was 35 and a half years old, he's add 50 fights, and if you put them together, you've got the end of a great career.

Keep up the good debate.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Oh I see there is an excuse for Joe fighting no names making his title defenses against a bunch of no names but when Jones can't can't make certain fights he is avoding people ..Right no double standard there

And take away his PPV fights look at resume who are the bums ? Hill ? Reggie Johnson ? Much better than the Mario Veit's of the world ! And I find it hard to beleive that Frank ****** couldn't get Joe in some meanigful fights . And no money the man made a fortune defending his title in Wales !

 

When you call yourself the p4p best fighter that ever lived you have to step up and fight real competition.

RJJ was a fraud, now go back watching RJJ on youtube beat up on security guards and cab drivers

YALL MUSTA FORGOT

 

it's not double standards. it's the reality of the situation.

calzaghe wasn't a big name or a big money fight (pre-lacy). rjj was both.

it's like comparing pacquiao to kell brook. which one would have an easier time making big fights?

 

It's a fact that Hopkins turned down a fight with Calzaghe in 2002

Joe wanted fights with both Roy and Hopkins when all were prime, he didn't have the name in America and hence they wouldn't give Joe a shot.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jVrFZDxZS0[/ame]

6:45 in. "For 2 years Calzaghe has chased pound for pound number one Roy Jones, but to no avail".

 

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YOU MUST NOT KNOW !

 

What real comp was out there for RJJ to fight? DM? If DM wanted to fight so badly, he could have come to the US right? That's like Cotto demanding Floyd to come to PR to fight him or else. Besides DM lost to a guy in Gonzalez that RJJ beat handily.

 

So Calzaghe chased RJJ for 2 years when it made sense to fight? So where was the fight gonna take place? i thought he was scared to fly. I'm sure RJJ wasn't going overseas and rightfully so. Everyone at the time "said" they wanted RJJ, because he was the draw. Much like how everyone wants a piece of Floyd or Manny. A nice check makes an ass whipping a little easier to take......

 

Ploys,

Thanks for the reply. I know his resume is lacking certain names, but as i've said, these fights aren't that easy to make. I wish he'd have fought bigger names than he has. But most of the names have been covered. I've just discussed the Hopkins rematch in my last post.

Toney? Why would Roy want a Toney rematch? That's for James to persue.

He didn't go to heavyweight and avoid the big names. Read the rest of this thread. He persued fights with Tyson and Lewis. There's factual information and various links to support this. The only guy he missed aa 175 was Dariusz. The fight became impossible to make. Roy was never going to go to Germany when he had 3 belts, and Dariusz could never agree to terms to come to the U.S.

Calzaghe made the best fights he could? Do me a favour! He did nothing to land a big fight. He had to fight Peter Manfredo in 2006 to gain U.S. exposure. Apparently he was scared of flying. But when Roy was 40 and Hopkins was 43, he overcame his fear.

The reason he went to heavy is because of the reluctant Roy comments. He goes upto heavy fights a guy at 16 and a half stone, who is far from great, but who is a big risk for a 175 fighter to take. Respected jouralists and fighters tip Ruiz to win, because of the size difference, and what happens when Roy wins easily? Does he get any credit? No Ruiz was cherry picked and the win shouldn't count.

If Joe had've moved upto heavy and fought a top ten ranked guy, everyone would have cummed in their pants!

 

This guy right he was chasing Jones :


“I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he’s ever had,” said Calzaghe. “But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn’t want to risk it.”



"I'm not chasing after Roy Jones. Be honest, Roy Jones is a good fighter and I don't want tough fights, I just want big money."

Joe Calzaghe - The Daily Mirror - June 1 - 1999 -



p300 "No Ordinary Joe: The Autobiography of Joe Calzaghe" by Joe Calzaghe and Brian Doogan -

"I have no interest any more in Roy Jones and no interest in Antonio Tarver. Jones is washed up and Tarver was never that good anyway, he just caught Jones when Jones was shot and Johnson did the same."

Antonio Tarver TKO2 Roy Jones Jr, 2004
Glen Johnson KO9 Roy Jones Jr, 2004

Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jr, 2008


Yeah I also didn't mention how Joe suddenly became afraid of flying

Yeah sure Joe wanted big fights ..The only guy that ducked him was Hopkins in 2000 ..Actions speak louder than words !

 

Making as much money as possible with the least amount of risk and walking away unbeaten was important to Calzaghe. He got what he wanted, but I don't honestly see how anyone can say he stuck his neck out against another fighter.....

 

Knockout, stop with all the Joe wanted the big fights nonsense. It's laughable! I can sit here and say I want a fight with Floyd Mayweather.

Joe persued a fight with Roy Jones jr. HAHA!

Did anybody ouside of the U.K. know who Joe was? NO they didn't.

Joe's fight with Rick Thornberry was shown in the U.S. in 1999. It was an awful fight and Joe didn't impress, and he was quickly forgotten about.

More importatntly,

Did Joe ever fight in Roy's country when these claims were made? NO!!

Had Joe ever fought In Roy's weight class? (despite having to kill himself to fight in a weak 168 division) NO!!!

Did Joe ever publicly call Roy Jones out in a post fight interview? NO!!

Did he tell Frank, that he wanted to go to the U.S. to have a few fights to build up a fan base? NO!!

It's a complete Joke! Nobody in the States knew who Joe was Knockout.

How can he have chased a fight with Roy, when he'd fought in the guy's Country or weight class?

It's embarrassing! Joe was a nobody in 2002. Do you think Roy was going to come to Newbridge and knock on his door.

Joe can say whatever he wants, the facts speak for themselves. The facts are, Joe Calzaghe did NOTHING to persue a fight with Roy Jones, when Roy was a thte top of his game, NOTHING!

 

toney did pursue it...he was totally dead at 168 & wanted to set things straight. didn't happen. b-hop/rjj should have happened 2002/03 when they were 1 & 2 on the p4p list. that would have been a super-fight for the ages...rjj should have bent over backwards for that fight...he didn't need 60/40 to make more than he had ever made before...

& i know individually you can make an "excuse" for every fight being made; b-hop2, toney2, benn, eubank, collins, nunn, lilles, rocchigiani, dm, all the true top hw's...

but the fact that he didn't make ANY of those fights has to raise eyebrows. there were all these big fights out there that would have meant something...& he ended up fighting rick frazier, david telesco & the like on ppv instead.

he milked his fame man...everyone knew it.

calzaghe couldn't make fights pre-lacy. there was no money in it...he wasn't a big name...& he kept getting injured. post-lacy is a different story. imo he made the best fights he could...facing kessler who was a double champion and b-hop who was the recognised number 1 at 175. that would have been a period where he could have made serious money milking his title but he tried to clean up his division & crack america instead...which says to me he wanted to do that all along but couldn't.

go up to hw...fight the weakest champion...then drop down in weight? that suggests to me trinket collecting. if you're gonna do that you shouldn't bother imo.

 

:deal