Should Dundee have done more...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by rm36, Jul 4, 2009.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Pacheco had copies of medical examinations that Ali had taken with comments made by the physicians emphasising the decline in his performances of the tests he undertook. Those copies were sent to Dundee ,Herbert Muhammad,and Ali and his then wife, Pacheco received no replies from any of them , he then walked away. Dundee should have done more ,ditto Herbert Muhammad.
     
  2. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    Remember, though, that the bottom-line Mayo Clinic assessment was: all clear. An abysmally poor determination, because the basis was that Ali's health and skills were acceptable for a 38-year-old. Maybe for a 38-year-old accountant, but NOT for a man about to face "the most dangerous fighter in the world".

    This is what I mean by a physician's vantage point: that practiced eye. As a doctor, Pacheco could see that Ali was deteriorating.

    Again, it was easier said than done for Dundee to tell his boss (Ali) that the show was over. Business is business.

    It would have taken, not a business associate, but a friend, to go the extra mile, to plead with Ali, to refuse to abet the disastrous misadventures post-Manila.

    I once read that a friend will tell you the truth. Dundee, rest his soul, collected every last paycheck. Fine. But he knew better.

    In hindsight, 30 years later, it would have been beautiful if Angelo had stuck up for Ali, not after a 10-round beating, but BEFORE.
     
  3. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    Dundee could have wound up on the outs like Pacheco if he'd tried to put his foot down. Don't forget that Angelo worked AGAINST Ali (albeit with Muhammad's blessing) in the corner of Jimmy Ellis. Ali was going to continue competing with or without Dundee there, and Angelo made the decision to be there. It paid off with Holmes. Muhammad wanted to continue against Larry, and Angie ended it over Bundini's vehement protests. The following day, Ali said on "Good Morning America" that Dundee made the right call, that Muhammad was now glad it was stopped.

    Take Angelo out of that corner against Holmes, and nobody in that corner makes that decision. Referee Richard Greene likely allows it to go the limit.
     
  4. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Which, honestly, might have been the end of Ali.

    More rounds of what that fight had become...I'm not sure a fighter can be expected to survive that.
     
  5. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Dundee made a lot of money with Ali.
    Ali made a lot of money for himself too.

    It's not complicated, human beings are greedy. We keep going for more reward and success and glory, and find it hard to quit while ahead.

    Let's not paint these guys as saints. But they are not villains either. Just human beings.

    The real scandal is how the boxing commissions and medical experts gave Ali the all clear for his final two fights. A layman could see he was punch-drunk.