Calzaghe vs RJJ's resume

The point about iron chinned warriors is that they don't generally get put to sleep...

A pearler is an excellent shot, it's a colloquialism. How many fighters dropped Chris Eubank with a single shot? If that shot hit Jones, it would be game over. Jones' prime was at LHW, he came into the ring weighing 186, he was a legit LHW. Roy Jones got destroyed by Glen Johnson, stopped in a round by Danny Green, stopped by a single shot from Tarver, he has an awful chin.

I said Calzaghe had decent power before his hand problems, remember he stopped 20 of his first 21 opponents, I never made out he was a 168 pound Tommy Hearns. Once his hand problems started to get worse around the Robin Reid fight, they weren't the same. It's an irrefutable fact that Calzaghe was feather fisted in the latter half of his career.

Name me an opponent that Glen Johnson put to sleep other than Roy Jones?

 

Maybe when you are young and fresh boiling down to a weight aint a problem, but as you progress in age I think your natural weight, naturally changes.

Its like saying, Hopkins was a career MW, but he aint a natural MW today, he is a natural 170 - 175 fighter.

If we look at weight drained fighters in the past, examples being Erik Morales vs Manny Pacqiuao III

Morales wasnt suited to the weight and paid the price by being KO.

Semi retired can mean something, but I understand your point is valid.

General Zod is the RJJ knowledge champion

And the Calzaghe knowledge champion has been vacant since bailey retired.

 

most of Calzaghes KOs were actually TKO fitups by the welsh ref, if you are being fair, that one hjighlighted in realsoujas video is a typically atrocious gift TKO, whereas RJJs are real KOs.


About Bhop - anyone who really thinks a fortysomething is having 'the best run of his career' but a mid thirties Calzaghe is only 50% by comparison is being plainly expedient. Pointless trying to argue with someone who harbours that belief. Just accept that old Bhop can outbox any version of Calzaghe, and that Calzgahe can outlast an old Bhop.

 

You want to argue that Jones' win over Hopkins was better? Please answer this for me, how can it be when Hopkins needed another two attempts to win a world title? You make out that Hopkins was a diminished force when Calzaghe beat him. However, how can that be when Hopkins was on the best run of his career? Beating Wright, Tarver, then schooling Pavlik straight after? Recording his best wins there. He then went on to win the title from Pascal. Who has beaten Hopkins since Calzaghe? Yes Hopkins was past his physical prime, however that doesn't account for everything.

You make out like all Calzaghe did to win that fight was flail his arms. If so, then can any half decent LHW get himself into great condition to throw 80 punches a round for 12 rounds, and beat that version of Bernard Hopkins? BHop has a higher ring IQ no doubt, I'm not debating that, however Calzaghe also has a great ring IQ, and the athletic talent to supplement that. Physically, Hopkins was never the most gifted athlete.

Prime Calzaghe v prime Toney is an interesting debate, here's what I wrote to Loudon about it.

You say Calzaghe never had battles, then describe him going life and death? What battles had Roy been through before fights with Tarver and Johnson? Please enlighten me? His fights with Hopkins, Toney and Ruiz were all stinkers, where he was terrified to engage, those fights had next to no action.

Jones fought way better opposition? Come off. He wasted his prime fighting has beens like Hill and McCallum, and never has beens which I won't even bother naming, the list is too long.

Joe was chasing a fight with Jones when both were prime. At that time, Calzaghe didn't have the pulling power or fanbase of Jones, it was easy for Jones to ignore him. Jones ducked plenty of legit threats in his prime.

The version of Kessler that Joe fought, was a more dangerous opponent than the version of Toney that RJJ fought. Toney just looked awful in that fight. The best way to judge it, look at his legs, they had barely any spring in them, compare that to the Toney that fought McCallum a couple of years earlier, or Barkley. Of course, all time Toney will undoubtedly rank higher than Kessler, Toney was immensely talented, who wasted much of his prime being ill-disciplined. He should never have lost to the likes of Griffin and Thadzi in his prime.

 

Why state the obvious.

Eubank wasnt hurt by Calzaghe's "pearler",

No one has ever been SERIOUSLY hurt by Calzaghe's pearlers.

Calzaghe never hurt no one, the most I have seen hurt is a Byron Mitchell.

Calzaghe never had the power to hurt a PRIME RJJ.

Now I will get into the difference between Prime and Non Prime for you to comprehend.

I think you coined the term.

Pearler, nice vocab regardless.

Can I say, Hopkins Knockdown of Calzaghe was also a pearler?

And what other pearlers has Calzaghe done in his career?

Not many, but anyone can be dropped.

You are using this as a diversion to go away from the fact that Calzaghe had **** power.

You are basing Calzaghe's one punch power over a "Pearler" hit on Eubank who stood up and smiled and went straight back into the action.

Calzaghe never did a game over in his whole career.

You mean this as a game over:-

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2d2UzAch8g[/ame]

atsch

Name me one Calzaghe game over. Go on then.

So you think Roy Jones Jr was at his best when he got destroyed by Tarver and Johnson.

You dont know **** about baaxin!

Roy Jones Jr in his prime was good enough not to be hit flush, and to quote iron chinned warrior Carl the cobra Froch, the best chin is that, that doesnt get hit.

RJJ would have taken that Pearler any time.

Matter of fact, 46 of Calzaghe's opponents took that pearler son. What you on about, and a Prime RJJ is better than all 46 of Calzaghe's wins.

Show me one "pearler" that Calzaghe threw that actually hurt his opponent badly that they were not able to continue?

Whats that got to do with the discussion,

Anyway, I got you to admit Calzaghe had **** power by calling him feather fisted.

You think Glen Johnson was feather fisted just proves my point which is:-

You dont know **** about Baaxin!

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35KqYUKUazg[/ame]



Go to 1:50, just as an example of Calzaghe able to drop an opponent. The shot Hopkins floored JC with was an excellent shot, textbook right hand, caught him cold.

[url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pearler[/url]

In the latter part of his career, Calzaghe certainly was feather fisted, no-one's arguing with you. Also, Glen Johnson is feather fisted. Go do some research on Glen Johnson's power.

If Calzaghe can floor iron chinned Eubank with one shot, he can hurt glass jaw Jones

Roy was past his prime when he fought Tarver and Johnson, however he wasn't a shot fighter by any means. He still had great hand speed, great foot speed and was still sharp. In the first round in the 2nd Tarver fight, he looked sharp, controlled the centre of the ring, how could Roy be dehydrated or drained when he fought Glen Johnson, when he had that much time to adapt his body to the weight? I think that's another excuse. I think Roy was gunshy from the Tarver KO, I think Glen fought an excellent fight and doesn't get the credit he deserves. I made the point that when Glen gave Roy time and space, he showed his hand speed and his combinations were there, he still had quick feet

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPP9ffqGYHk[/ame]


Look at what he was capable of 12 months later, hardy looks like a shot fighter.

Against Tarver he got exposed.

Against Glen Johnson, it was a combination of things, he didn't have the advantages that steroids give you, his athleticism had declined, but not as much as is made out, Glen fought an excellent fight, pressured him, didn't give him space to breathe, and Roy was so gun shy. In spurts, he would fight, and his hand speed and combinations were there, but he was too afraid to commit to it. Face it, RJJ is overrated.


'You don't know **** about baaxin' was funny when Roger Mayweather said it. It's not funny anymore, and it's certainly not funny when you put it at the end of your sentences.

 

This content is protected

1. RJJ beat Hopkins clearly, Calzaghe never
2. RJJ never got Knockdown, Calzaghe did
3. RJJ beat Hopkins with a broken hand, Calzaghe at 100% barely got passed Hopkins.
4. Calzaghe resorted to Homo fantasies in the middle of the fight, RJJ fought like a man throughout.
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You obviously understand this:-

Hopkins at age 27ish is more closer to his physical prime than he was at age 42.

Calzaghe beat Hopkins at age 42, and Calzaghe beat him because he had the better workrate. But when it came to ring smarts, Hopkins owned Calzaghe.

So what makes you think Calzaghe would outwork a younger BHop? when he barely couldnt got passed an older one and ducked a rematch?
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You say Physically Hopkins was never the most gifted athlete, obviously at 42 he wont be a gifted athlete. But at 27 he had more than enough to deal with Calzaghe's workrate.
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Your piece on Toney vs Calzaghe is interesting read to be fair.

Toney is one of the hardest fighters to hit flush on the chin, he would have his chin tucked under his shoulder, he mastered the shoulder roll better than Mayweather IMO. And when you missed against a James Toney, he would pretty much make you pay.

I think a Prime Toney would have KTFO Joe Calzaghe in the last two rounds. Calzaghe throws many shots but misses most of them, and you dont miss against Toney without paying for it atleast once. And since Feather fisted Kabery Salem was able to rock Calzaghe, imagine the power of James Toney would do.
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RJJ went up from LMW to HW then back to LHW.

That within itself is a difficult challenge, and would affect any fighter. No fighter would be the same after that. That alone is more difficult than 21 WBO title fights against Mario Veits and Thornberry and going life and death with Byron Mitchell.
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RJJ fought better opposition than Calzaghe.

- RJJ fought more Former world champs
- RJJ fought more Future world champs
- RJJ fought more reigning world champs
- RJJ fought more P4P ranked fighters
- RJJ fought more as an underdog than Calzaghe
- Calzaghe fought more bums than RJJ
- I repeat, Calzaghe fought more bums than RJJ

Lets have a proper debate on this then. Who fought more bums, Calzaghe or RJJ.
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Calzaghe always changed his tune on RJJ, he sometimes looked interested and sometimes looked **** scared.

I personally think he was **** scared, thats why he asked for the crown jewels.
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Toney looked awful against RJJ, because RJJ made him look awful.

Toney was always in **** condition but still had enough skill to beat opponents. He was P4P number 1 that night, and RJJ beat him convincingly

 

I asked you to bring me a punch that Calzaghe threw that proved he had KO power, and you brought up Mario Veit being floored and getting up right away

atsch

Calzaghe had **** power :deal

[url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pearler[/url]

You asked me to research Glen Johnsons power? Ok here we go:-

[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxing/8557578/Carl-Froch-defeats-Glen-Johnson-in-majority-points-decision-to-retain-WBC-super-middleweight-title.html[/url]

Froch says he felt Glen Johnson's so called feather fisted power. And Froch has an IRON chin.

I never said RJJ was shot, so why you bringing that up

Fighters get KO at the end of their career dont mean they have **** chins in the early part.

BHop will eventually be knocked out if he carries on fighting, are you gonna call him glass jawed fraud and say he would be KO by any decent fighter in his prime when that happens?

What about Tyson being KO by Williams, dont make Tyson a glass jaw, matter of Fact, Tyson had one of the best chins of all time.

I agree RJJ is overrated. But Judging RJJ's prime from the Tarver and Johnson fight is stupidity. and just shows you:-

deal

I aint trying to be funny, I am just stating a fact.

You called Glen Johnson feather fisted, you simply dont know **** about baaxin!

 

Here is RJJ's scariest KO:
- Go to 1:39 of this video

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOs39bxFb18[/ame]

Here is so called feather fisted Glen Johnson's scariest KO:
- So called feather fisted atsch

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o0c8fXHp-4[/ame]

Here is Bernard Hopkins scariest KO
- Joe Lipsey never fought again

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScRv9xzLeW8[/ame]

And here is Joe Calzaghe's Scariest KO:
- :roflatsch

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2d2UzAch8g[/ame]

 

RJJ was in his physical prime when he beat Hopkins, Calzaghe wasn't. He needed another two attempts to win a world title. He was on his best run when he fought Calzaghe, right after he took an undefeated Kelly Pavlik to school in a clinic, no-one has beaten him since, 5 years on, he's the man at LHW and fighting Chad Dawson next.

We will go around in circles about this all day, so I'll agree to disagree.

Interesting question, I wish they had fought in 2002! If they had fought earlier, they would have most likely fought at 168. I think Joe was stronger at this weight, we don't know how good BHop would be. I think Joe's ring IQ is higher than you're giving him credit for here. Hopkins is a great fighter, superior technician and his ring IQ is second only to Floyd Mayweather in the sport today, and over the last decade. It would be another close decision, maybe another split decision, I would have Hopkins as the favourite, I still think Calzaghe could beat him. As for ducking a rematch, why did Jones duck a rematch with Hopkins?

 

Earlier on in his career his power was better. He put Veit away, look at the state Veit was in :deal

Later on in his career, he was feather fisted no doubt.

Glen Johnson is feather fisted, start a thread on it asking how good is Glen Johnson's punching power?

By that point, Tyson was overweight. He got KO'd by Williams because his knee blew out, due to his poor conditioning. Also at that point, he had suffered prolonged beatings at the hands of Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis. He also had two wars with Ruddock, and fought some big punchers in his time.

Roy had never had such fights, nor had he ever taken such beatings by the time Tarver and Johnson got to him. I could understand if he'd been in some brutal wars like Gatti, or if he'd taken a beating like Tyson took from Lewis.

Glen Johnson is feather fisted, that's widely accepted, end of discussion.

You're not Roger Mayweather

 

I agree to disagree with you.

I already stated, Calzaghe beat a mentally stronger BHop, but RJJ beat a Physically stronger BHop.

You know that I schooled you on this so that is why you want to duck the point.

It has become an irrefutable point. RJJ UD12 Hops > Calzaghe UD12 Hops.

And here is another irrefutable point that shits all over your discussion:-

Roy Jones Jr is the only fighter to have convincingly defeat Bernard Hopkins. :deal

2002/03 was the best time for these men Hopkins and Calzaghe to fight. I think Hopkins in 2002/03 was a beast he had just done the most MW title defences of all time.

The reason why Calzaghe got the Split decision victory was because he threw and landed more shots, (Workrate) although Hopkins landed the better shots (better boxing).

A 2002/03 Hopkins would have been in better condition and would have fought Calzaghe different. Calzaghe wouldnt have been any different, he would have had the same intense workrate he always had.

I think Hopkins possibly KO but more likely UD Calzaghe.

Regardless. Going from LMW to HW and then back down to LHW would have an affect on a fighter. He fought decent opposition in all weight classes he competed in (except LMW).

Calzaghe cleared out the division (168), but never beat the lineal champ, he beat Hopkins who later on became the lineal champ.


You call DM the man at LHW, Gonzales beat him, Erdei beat Gonzales. Erdei moved up to CW. Pascal and Dawson fought for vacant title. Hopkins beat Pascal.

So as you can see, Calzaghe never beat the lineal champ at LHW.

Roy never stuck at a weight for too long for him to clear out a division like Calzaghe did so you can come up with alot of he didnt fight this guy or that guy.

But the fact remains.

Which I already said:-

RJJ fought better opposition than Calzaghe.

- RJJ fought more Former world champs
- RJJ fought more Future world champs
- RJJ fought more reigning world champs
- RJJ fought more P4P ranked fighters
- RJJ fought more as an underdog than Calzaghe
- Calzaghe fought more bums than RJJ
- I repeat, Calzaghe fought more bums than RJJ

that cant be argued against. To add more:-

- RJJ acheived more than Calzaghe achieved
- RJJ top wins are better than Calzaghe's top wins
- RJJ best KO look better than Calzaghes.....

and I can go on, point being:-

RJJ > Calzaghe

Thank u

Calzaghe said he wanted the crown jewels and he said he knows his own capabilities.

Calzaghe didnt want it. If Clinton Woods can get a title shot at RJJ.

As you said "Toney wasn't in any shape to be fighting an opponent as good as Roy Jones."

But that dont mean Toney was not good, Toney during his **** periods was still a formiddable fighter.

RJJ UD12 Toney is the greatest single win at SMW history.
Calzaghe UD12 Kessler is probably second.
Close behind in third, Ward UD12 Froch.

 

His power was better early on in his career, but later on it was feather fisted.

This is the same way as saying what I have been saying all along.

Calzaghe had **** power but later on in his career his power became shitter.

:deal

So you agree Calzaghe had **** power basically.

Mario Veit was floored, he got up straight away. Thats how **** Calzaghe's power was.

Froch gave respect to Johnson's power, why do I need to start a thread.

How can Glen Johnson be feather fisted when he backed up Iron Chinned Froch?

You dont know **** about Baaxin if u think Glen Johnson is feather fisted.

Point being. Dont judge a fighter by his last few losses, judge him by his prime wins.

RJJ may have had a weak heart, and was over cocky. Regardless, RJJ moved up from LMW to HW and back to LHW fighting decent opponents in the process, that is a difficult task. Along with roid abuse and making rap music videos, all this eventually took a toll on RJJ.

Iron Chin Carl Froch respects Glen Johnson's power.

I aint no Roger Mayweather but you dont know **** about baaxin!

 

What about John Ruiz?

 

ON PAPER I say he beats all but Hopkins (still has a very good chance) and maybe Ruiz (since Calzaghe was not a proven PED cheat he might not make it HW comfortably).