Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by megavolt, Apr 9, 2012.


  1. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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    I like to read up often on fitness stuff but the points and basis on these theories are so contradictory to conventional fitness wisdom it blows my mind.

    Essentially it welcomes the breakdown of muscle tissue through cortisol release while fasting, and during this state your insulin sensitivity and growth hormone release during post-workout nutrition is at an all-time high. Humans benefit through recycle/reparation of older muscle fibers rather than growth of new fibers on top of old fibers, thus maintaining strength/fitness (can't really see how you can grow too much like this) while inhibiting muscle hyperplasia, essentially stunting cell division and muscle age... as well as various neurological benefits

    Can anyone chime in on this??
     
    megavolt, Apr 9, 2012
    megavolt, Apr 9, 2012
    #1
  2. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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    No one? hmmm
     
    megavolt, Apr 9, 2012
    megavolt, Apr 9, 2012
    #2
  3. brown bomber

    brown bomber 2010 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    I'd like to know more about it
     
    brown bomber, Apr 10, 2012
    brown bomber, Apr 10, 2012
    #3
  4. tofu2009

    tofu2009 Active Member Full Member

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    Never heard of it but I know the guy in your Avatar has some 5 day fast or something?
     
    tofu2009, Apr 10, 2012
    tofu2009, Apr 10, 2012
    #4
  5. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes.

    During a study, it was said that the people could eat whatever they wanted and still maintain healthy weight. On a related note, calorie restriction has been shown to increase the lifespan of animals by MANY years with increased health in studies as well.

    Not sure how fasting more than one day would tie in with training though. Seems you would get a bit light headed during exertion. Just living like a regular Joe? It is probably for the best.
     
    bald_head_slick, Apr 10, 2012
    bald_head_slick, Apr 10, 2012
    #5
  6. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's something that may extend the lifespan of a sedentary individual but for someone who regularly performs intense exercise it's not going to be beneficial for a whole list of reasons.
    I'd imagine that it would increase the fTRP:BCAA ratio due to the increased protein metabolised for energy, which is a negative when it comes to neurological function/energy.
    Where'd you read these things? It sounds unscientific and unlikely to me. Muscle hyperplasia isn't something anybody is likely to have too much of anyway unless they're a competitive bodybuilder/steroid user. Not a lot is known about muscle hyperplasia apart from some old animal studies.
    Does fasting cause increased cortisol release? I didn't think it did.. Fasting does raise levels of HGH and that's not really compatible with increased cortisol levels. HGH inhibits protein breakdown so that can't really explain what you're talking about, I imagine that the energy deficit during fasting would cancel out any benefits of the increased HGH release anyway.
    The body does a great job of adapting to times of stress, for a limited time.... If you aren't exercising and want to lose weight I think intermittent fasting could be good.
    If you're consistently performing at a high intensity level I don't see how intermittent fasting could be compatible with that.
     
    lefty, Apr 11, 2012
    lefty, Apr 11, 2012
    #6
  7. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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    Fyi guys I'm not trying to lose weight at all, in fact I'm confident in my athleticism, just wanted to see some opinions and it confirms some of my own thoughts as well

    Before I forget to mention it, I think I should mention the premise of the topic is how intermittent fasting claims to have benefits of extended health and muscular life span and not peak athleticism, by breaking down the tissue during the fasting phase and rejuvenating it during the post-exercise recovery

    In regards to cortisol levels, I don't see why not since fasting would entail a diminished protein intake. While HGH doesn't really work well in tandem with raised cortisol levels I've also read that fasting also provides benefits on insulin sensitivity. So after a fasting session one can exercise and ingest a quickly digestible protein such as whey (apparently whey ingestion increases GH levels as well as exercise so fasting, exercise, and post-exercise protein nutrition should compound the effect) and after 45 minutes or so, take some additional protein as well as some high GI carbohydrates to take advantage of the increased insulin sensitivity and suppress the cortisol. Also after an hour and a half or so, consume a large meal such that there is no caloric deficit
     
    megavolt, Apr 11, 2012
    megavolt, Apr 11, 2012
    #7
  8. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Actually ingesting protein elevates cortisol levels and decreases testosterone according to most studies.

    Also exercising after a fast is going to be compromised. It seems that with nutrition people get so caught up on what's right and what's wrong and make things a lot more complicated than they have to be. Eating a balanced diet, exercising and resting well gives you the best of everything. I can understand how people want to search for a nutritional secret to give them an edge but there isn't anything that exciting out there, by focusing on a certain dietary manipulation you tend to ignore something else that's more important. Elite athletes don't worry about things like this.

    Here's a balanced view on the issue of IT fasting that I like:

    http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting.html
     
    lefty, Apr 11, 2012
    lefty, Apr 11, 2012
    #8
  9. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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    Yep, I've also read that protein consumption raises cortisol levels and lowers free testosterone. Studies have also shown that it also lowers SHBG which binds to free T anyway so it kind of cancels each other out i guess.

    I actually read that article yesterday or 2 days back which was pretty interesting. From what I can tell, AA is a respected poster on BB.com so I'm pretty sure he knows his stuff. I'll need to review it more thoroughly later (its like 4 am) but one thing I did notice a few things on the research summary, 1)- that there isn't enough human research on it, 2) - simply exercising produces similar results such as increase insulin sensitivity, elevating BDNF levels, blood lipid and blood pressure benefits, etc dependent on intensity, and 3)- A few of the selected studies lead me to believe his analysis has a slight focus on short-term performance with points highlighted such as muscle protein synthesis, protein degradation during fasting (problem with that is IF aims to do this), school attendance (lol) and others, whereas studies on IF seem to focus on long-term health, neurology, life-expectancy, enhanced resistance to disease etc. The elevated levels of GH, etc apparently are simply there for recovery to counteract the performance drawbacks accumulated during the fasting period.


    here's some interesting ones I found

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC156352/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622429/
     
    megavolt, Apr 11, 2012
    megavolt, Apr 11, 2012
    #9
  10. spion

    spion Active Member Full Member

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    I've read about it and experimented with it. There are several different ways to do it. One can fast for a day (24 hrs) and then return to eating the following day. One can eat dinner, go to bed and then not eat again until the following evening AFTER training. It is, as you mentioned, a way to manipulate the hormones in the system to not only burn fat but to release HGH and a bit of testosterone as well. I read where Ali, (at the time Cassius Clay) said he used to eat only one meal per day AFTER training. He never felt compromised in energy or strength.
     
    spion, Apr 12, 2012
    spion, Apr 12, 2012
    #10
  11. Brisbox

    Brisbox New Member Full Member

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    Probably the best site to visit for fasting - www.leangains.com

    A great book to read is eat stop eat by Brad Pylon(sp)

    Both dispell the myths of being able to speed up metabolism by eating small and often meals, there are no medical trials/proof of metabolic speed to back up the statement of "eat little and often you'll drop fat quicker because your metabolisms faster"

    your body does not suddenly choose to burn muscle after 3 hours without food, which most people seem to believe

    the best way to fast and burn fat/lose excess weight I have found is to eat at a calorie deficit for 8hrs of the day and fast for 16hrs obviously 8ish hrs of your fast will be sleeping and remembering to drink roughly 3litres of water a day this makes sure your body isnt holding onto any excess water.

    For actual food I don't really do full paleo because I still eat bread and potatoes but stay away from milk sugar cheese cereals pasta etc

    Hope this helps someone it's worth a try if you are trying to drop some weight.
     
    Brisbox, Dec 6, 2012
    Brisbox, Dec 6, 2012
    #11