How would you defeat Floyd's shoulder roll

Be a fast southpaw and come in throwing a million punches in hope you will land some through that tight defense and not get tagged by the most accurate puncher of all time...oh wait...

 

Sr doesnt have 10% of the skill Floyd Jr possesses.
Only an idiot like you would bring up a comparison like that.

 

As he would go to the body in that short distance away from Floyd, JMM would be more exposed for the typical shoulder roll counter. Which is why he concentrated on the head in that particular moment.
Marquez made few adjustments and was able to last all 12 round, something your idol Pacquiao wouldn't be able to do.

 

Quick reflexes

 

Funny thing is though, Floyd Sr. taught his son the shoulder roll, but Jr. is far, far better with it. Floyd Sr. is stuck in place and getting cracked.

 

Orthodox vs Orthodox its all about the right hand vs the philly shell, thats the fundamental weakness in its set-up. No defense or guard is perfect & they all have their advantages & flaws.

The difficulty is setting up the right hand & disguising it, a good jab will help by disorganising the shell & judging range. Feinting & working to the body will open up opportunities & finishing off combinations with a right hand is often effective.

For anyone to be successful at using the shoulder roll/philly shell learning how to catch, block, slip & roll under right hands is essential. This is a gif of Locche, one the finest defensive boxers ever caught on film. Watch his opponent's right hand in this sequence & you'll see half a dozen different ways to avoid a variety of shots.

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GIFSoup

 

Chainsaw off both his shoulders and tickle him with a feather. I dunno, maybe.

 

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look at what punch Oscar tried b4 he was countered with the first right hand. bodyshots require more commitment and thus can leave fighters vulnerable for counters.

Floyd and his uncle trained Floyd's right elbow into a timing mechanism to set off counter shots with his right. If you're in range to put your left fist near his right elbow, you're in range to get countered

 

this the best shots landed on Floyd came from right hands

Oscar caught Floyd along the ropes with a fat AZZ one in the 11th round that buzzed him and had him jump

the 1st shot Mosley got Floyd with was also a right

Castillo landed some nice rights to the body

 

The problem is that there's no one currently technically good enough to beat PBF. That's why I laugh when people say Pac can do it because he's not good enough technically to do it. He's far too limited and flawed, he simply doesn't have the ring IQ or skill. He would get picked apart and schooled. If a master boxer like JMM couldn't solve PBF and have some success then no one will.:deal All of these plans sound good until you actually get into the ring and find out that they are damn near impossible to pull off and the guy you're in the ring with is smarter, faster and just better than you. Right now the best bet you have is father time hoping he slows down enough that he starts to get caught. Right now PBF is just a stylistic nightmare. A guy who can fight at all ranges with a high ring IQ and defense.

 

- Jab or feint to the body, then come over the top with a right hand. Preferably when Mayweather is at the ropes (Marquez and Hoya both pulled this off), but it can also work in the middle of the ring, as Mosley showed.

- If you're a southpaw, the shoulder-roll is vulnerable to the straight left. Judah and Corley both showed this.

- Try to punch with Mayweather. If you punch before him, he'll try and set you up for a counter. If you punch after him he'll be moving away or rolling your shot. Punching with him, however, catches him when he's most vulnerable, especially up close. Both Mosley and Corley used a looping right hand while Mayweather was in the middle of throwing, and both times it shook him up and stunned him. The shoulder-roll works very well for him, but he still needs to open his defence to throw his own punches, and that's what you have to aim for. You need quick hands, good timing and confidence in your chin, though.

- Constantly mix things up between body and head, while being ready for Mayweather's counters. Try jabbing or feinting in an effort to get Floyd to lift his forearm to roll a shot, so you can drill him to the body with a right-hook like Leonard was able to do to Sr.

 

You really think a natural counter-puncher moving up in weight at 37 years old with no outstanding physical gifts is a good benchmark for who can trouble Floyd? Manny, Cotto, Martinez, can all at least challenge Floyd and land on him due to different stylistic elements. Marquez had a little bit of long-term success, but Ortiz landed much more significant shots and his Ring IQ is nowhere near Marquez's. Floyd is an amazing fighter, but it makes no sense to simplify the way you're doing it.

 

:deal I have seen a clip of Naseem showing Mosley how to beat the Philly Shell defense, its feints to the body and foot placement allowing you to throw an over-the-shoulder right punch to the unprotected left side of Floyds face (everytime), why do you think after Shane caught him with that bomb like that he switched to the Peek-a-boo stance??...this is why.

 

That's exactly why anybody as the shorter man attempting to fight him on the inside will need to have the savvy necessary to be tactically physical. Smothering the right hand with the left forearm, pushing off balance, being able to bump shoulders and create openings, etc. are all ways to reposition a philly shell guard and do quality work on the inside while minimizing the risk of a counter-punch. So far, the only person who was able to attempt that has been Hatton, and Floyd was just plain better at it, given their skill levels and dimensions. A lot of other fighters simply smother their shots or come in with too predictably from too far.

It would be good to see some experienced infighters on ESB comment. (I'm a long guy, I can only go by what I see and what I hate having done to me, and while I can pick a few tricks up, others are far more qualified, and considering he's fighting Cotto, infighting strategies seem more relevant.)

Interesting point; it is a common strategy, and can be effective if set up craftily. I'd imagine that it's maybe why they predicted he'd come forward behind a high guard right after tasting those shots (the whole dragon spiel.) I actually had a dream where Cotto feinted with his left jab as Floyd backed into the ropes, and as he crouched, Cotto timed one over the top. We'll see if this one comes true.