Jack Johnson vs. Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by leverage, Apr 11, 2012.


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  1. leverage

    leverage Active Member Full Member

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    Did Jack Johnson have what it took to beat Liston?
     
    leverage, Apr 11, 2012
    leverage, Apr 11, 2012
    #1
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    no
     
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    #2
  3. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    End thread.
     
    DonBoxer, Apr 11, 2012
    DonBoxer, Apr 11, 2012
    #3
  4. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    Both overrated as ****, Liston would win though.
     
    manbearpig, Apr 11, 2012
    manbearpig, Apr 11, 2012
    #4
  5. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes because he would frustrate the living hell out of Liston, who would not be able to hardly land on him. In the meantime, Johnson would be firing and landing, which would frustrate Liston even more.
     
    apollack, Apr 11, 2012
    apollack, Apr 11, 2012
    #5
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    You have a vested interest in the Johnson franchise. I forgive you this opinion.
     
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    #6
  7. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But it's the correct opinion Seamus... no amount of man crush on liston changes that big buddy...
     
    KuRuPT, Apr 11, 2012
    KuRuPT, Apr 11, 2012
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Johnson is an offshoot in the history of the evolution of gloved boxing. He's special, great, but he's a relic in some senses. I have no doubt that his physical capabilities would make him competitive but he's from a different era. Liston would win. He'd be best jabbing though.
     
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    #8
    Rubber Glove Sandwich likes this.
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Who is the analogous fighter Johnson defeated?

    How do we even know that Johnson was a great 210 pound fighter? He was clearly an excellent 190 pound fighter but by the time he reached this weight, the one pundits claim was his peak, unbeatable shape, he was fighting has-been's and no-hopers. His greatest victories were when he weighed 190 or less.
     
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    #9
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The actual footage we have of actual fighters make a Johnson win seem impossible to me. Maybe Tyson put it best.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K33CUXqPknM[/ame]

    Some interesting stuff from around 2 minutes.
     
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    #10
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Johnson would likely win this fight (not sure).

    You have to ask what Listons strengths were.

    He was good at prety much everything, but he was not especialy fast, and did not pressure like the best pressure fighters.

    Johnson essentialy has the tools to work round these strengths and weaknesses.
     
    janitor, Apr 11, 2012
    janitor, Apr 11, 2012
    #11
    louis54 likes this.
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Liston's strengths:

    The strongest fighter Johnson had ever boxed (likely)

    The best jabber Johnson had ever fought.

    The best puncher Johnson had ever fought.

    And the best technical boxer Johnson had ever fought over 160lbs.
     
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    #12
    MrPR likes this.
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    And in Johnson we have...

    The greatest PR campaign a fighter has ever had.
     
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    Seamus, Apr 11, 2012
    #13
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    janitor, Apr 11, 2012
    janitor, Apr 11, 2012
    #14
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The jab is the single most important punch in boxing. This has been proven beyond all possible dis-agreement. Liston is now showing Johnson a fully evolved jab. Johnson is a fighter that has never seen one. Obviously Liston is not just going to throw "one punch", but the evolution of the jab on film is his single biggest problem.



    I disagree, but I'm sure you have your reasons. I won't argue because it doesn't matter - Liston is the best composite puncher Johnson would have faced.



    I disagree. Technical boxing - the correct mode of punching, the correct mode of combination punching - has clearly evolved on film. The correct way to fight with gloves on took about twenty, twenty-five years to evolve. Johnson is caught in it's infancy. None of the technicians - Langford, O'Brien, - that we have film for who met Johnson box as correctly as Liston.
     
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    McGrain, Apr 11, 2012
    #15
    Rubber Glove Sandwich likes this.
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