Overeem's BS

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by Flexb, Apr 15, 2012.


  1. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    Again other than testing people when they sign contracts (which is meaningless) and at overseas events (which has shown to be no less effective than commission testing) the UFC doesn't do any testing. Its all Commissions. The Commissions aren't strawmen created by the UFC but governmental bodies in the USA. Its their job to be organising drug testing for combat sports. Now I agree they are failing - the fact that they are failing isn't the UFC's fault. The fact that the UFC isn't doing anything to rectify this failure is the UFC's fault.

    And again I'm not convinced on blood testing. I think a lot of people have latched onto it before the proof of its effectiveness is in. I mean it caught three people in the Olympics, which is hilarious. To be honest I think banning TRT is the first thing (not because its inherently wrong but because they can't police it effectively) and then the UFC bringing in someone like USADA to ensure every fighter has at least two out of competition drug tests a year. Only if those measures don't prove effective do you need to consider blood tests.
     
  2. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    1
    Apr 4, 2008
    What are the chances of the JDS fight going through, Ive heard vague rumours of him being cleared due to the fact he wasnt under licence at the time of the test in question
     
  3. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    Everyone expects his defence to be TRT. I would hope Nevada isn't dumb enough to accept that but you never know. All reports say that Overeem is very confident he's going to fight.

    The licence thing is a red herring as his previous licence was conditional on agreeing to a further two tests. It does mean he can't be suspended but Vegas refusing to licence him will have the same impact as a year-long suspension.
     
  4. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    1
    Apr 4, 2008
    So basically, all he needs is a Dr's note saying he legitimately needs TRT and he's in the clear?

    I doubt Vegas will take the moral high ground and not grant him a licence either if this is the case
     
  5. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    Not quite.

    As I said its a key point that's often overlooked but TRT shouldn't be a 'Get Out of the Jail Free' card for elevated testosterone levels.

    Even if you're on TRT you should still have normal levels of testosterone in your body - no way should you be exceeding Nevada's 6:1 level. So the fact that Overeem's ration was 14:1 suggests that Overeem has a testosterone level far above what would be normal.

    Now yes he's going to come with blood tests and a (apparently shady) doctor's note that suggests he needs TRT which in normal circumstances may be enough but there's two complicating factors. One he didn't declare he was on TRT to Nevada - something that he's going to claim he didn't have to because Nevada only insists that you declare TRT twenty days before a fight. Two all the tests he had in the lead up to the Lesnar fight (including a blood test) showed normal levels of testosterone. So what's changed from December to February to result in him needing TRT?

    I really hope Nevada has the stones to call him on all this nonsense but I'm very concerned they won't
     
  6. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    Blood testing is the easiest and cheapest as well as most accurate method. Its used in medicine daily. Your bloods will show up all manner of ailments providing that when it goes down to the pathology lab the doctor has asked before hand for how much vials of blood he requires. And precisely 'what' he is testing for. Bloods can pick up anything literally speaking.
    You would need though qualified pathologists to verify the tests and the results.
     
  7. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    1
    Apr 4, 2008
    The December test kinda blows the TRT defence out of the water. But this is Vegas...Tyson had to try to eat Lennox Lewis' leg before they cancelled or refused to hold that fight iirc, and it's the only time I can remember where they chose ethics over $'s. And that was ten times the profile and public relations disaster that this would be

    Guess we'll have to wait and see though
     
  8. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    PED Blood Tests are significantly more expensive than Urine Tests which is why commissions hate them. Again I'm not against them I just don't think they're a magic bullet. Increasing the frequency and 'randomness' of testing dates is more important.
     
  9. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    Turning down Tyson was a seriously gutsy move which cost the Commission and the State lots and lots of money. That's a gold standard of decision that nobody today would ever do.
     
  10. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    1
    Apr 4, 2008
    Do they blood test after you **** hot? Seems logical
     
  11. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    Significantly more is a bit fallacious. Its only dearer because of the equipment required and the expertise involved. But its apples and oranages. As Bloods WILL contain far more information than a urine sample ever can. Urine is waste and easy to taint. Blood is not. If you want this problem resolved urine samples is clearly not the answer.
    Either way a blood test is far better than a urine sample hence why Doctors check bloods routinely for various ailments and conditions.
    They're certainly not a magic bullet or a defacto answer to the wider problem but head to head bloods pisses all over any urine sample (pun intended).
     
  12. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    No.

    The difference between a blood test and urine test is as follows.

    A urine test measures the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone

    A blood test measures the overall level of testosterone

    Urine catches the somebody uses external tesosterone because the ratio between the two is out of whack.

    Its why in theory a blood test catches HGH because if somebody is boosting their testosterone by pumping additional hormones into their blood then it won't show up in the T/E ratio but will in them having elevated levels.

    However if you request a B sample then they do a carbon istope test to found out whether there's any evidence of synthetic testosterone (i.e. anabolic steroids) being used.
     
  13. UFC where drugs are welcome and expected. Bunch of cheats.
     
  14. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    1
    Apr 4, 2008
    How did Monson do in his last fight for M1? :nut
     
  15. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    Jeff has openly admitted he's on gear. He used to be a solid 205. Then he went to this stocky 240lb power house at only 5ft 9. Dudes been on a boat load of gear his entire career. He passed every test administered when he was in the UFC. Just lets you know how farcical the tests are as well as the UFC's attitude towards it.