How do you rank Frank Bruno's performance vs Tyson in first fight

Tyson really didn't even use much head movement or boxing skill against Berbick, but I do think he showed sharper, more accurate punching in that fight than against Bruno.

 

I dont agree with that. Realistically he broke down guys like Berbick and Tubbs even though it wasnt over the course of a long fight. These guys presented resistance and Tyson overcame it. Against a guy like Carl Williams he just landed a big shot and the fight was stopped. Theres a difference between the fight against Berbick and the fight against Williams and I think most people think while he landed the beautiful hook against Williams, it wasnt a spectacular win like the Berbick win.

I would say in the Bruno fight Tyson did the same thing, he broke down Bruno, but it wasnt pretty or disciplined. I think its pretty obvious the difference in technique.

Tyson was a little more contained against Williams as well. Carl was a regular in his camp for sparring so Tyson knew Carl's technique would be a little better and he was looking for that counter lefthook when Carl's hands came down.

One thing Tyson never left on the table was his punching power and quickness. He was going to land shots and put guys down, but his technique and defense really started to decline after the Spinks fight.

 

I never cared for Franky Bruno all that much.... For such a hulking man of strength and power, he always froze when matched with an elite opponent.... His biggest wins are over a shot Gerrie Coetzee and a passive Ollie McCall in 1986 and 1995...

KO losses to "Smith, Spoon, Lewis and Tyson" will haunt him forever...

MR.BILL:bbb

 

I think it is negligible. Tyson whipped in some fast lead rights on Frank beating him to the draw very sharply - as good as ever. Frank just kept mauling and fighting back. Tyson was that bit more wary after the 1st round against Frank but IMO he was as good against both.

 

Nice post Salty. :good

Another intelligent post. Choklab seems to forget that Tyson while was improving, developing his skills & style with Rooney, he was starting to use more efficient reactive, reflex-based headmovement, which was a better use of energy than his previously more frequent proactive headmovement. Less heamovement doesn't automatically mean less elusiveness.

I agree with this overall, but i'm still stumped as to exactly why Tyson was so visibly listless & lethargic against Buster... his quickness wasn't there at all on that fateful unforgettable night.

 

Tyson himself has said he didnt train for Douglas. Aaron Snowell said he didnt train for Douglas, so if you choose to believe that, he probably didnt prepare himself well at all and went into a fight against a guy who was prepared and determined to win and it doesnt matter how good you are if your in poor condition.

People say Tyson still not training should have been able to beat Douglas but thats not how it works. I believe it could have been any number of fighters that Tyson had faced prior to facing Douglas who could have beaten him that night, because Tyson faced a lot of guys on the same skill level as Douglas and better. Fighters know how to land shots and get rough when the fight gets on their terms and Douglas for the most part had any easy time establishing that right from the start.

 

Another good post. I'm planning on trying to interview Aaron Snowell about specific details of Tyson's preparation for the Douglas fight, on Facebook. I've got him to respond to me before, regarding Witherspoon-Holmes, so i'm hoping he'll take notice if I politely present a well thought interview which isn't too long. If you have any questions about Mike's training camp for Buster, then PM them to me. :good

 

Maybe the difference was the strategy? Bruno was a big dangerous fighter with a real desire to win, Mike knew he had the edge in speed and needed to get in first - he planned to jump on Bruno and not allow him to settle and he did. It was never going to be pretty.
Bruno was a good boxer but he never had the footwork or speed to control the distance. Frank was reduced to using his brute strength, wrastle with him and hopefully get some shots off when Tyson became frustrated.
How was Tyson ever going to look good against so much inside mauling? He did not and could not against Bonecrusher either.

His technique and defence was never going to look as good against elite fighters in the way that it did against fringe contenders in his pre title days. Against inactive guys with declining desire or frozen like Spinks was Tyson would look terrific. As good as Tyson was for boxing he eventualy was found out. There is no use blaming TYsons corner or crazy lifestyle. Tyson was a great fighter in spite of his crazy lifestyle. Mike never was in control. IMO Mikes talent helped him get away with it. He was a great fighter but Tyson was found out, then went to prison. Tyson says himself his career was over in 1990.

 

Nah, and you seem to be focusing only on the performances that Tyson didnt look at his best. What elite fighters are you talking about anyway? Tyson faced a consistent group of very good fighters. Even the elite old timers like Larry Holmes were still "very good" when Tyson faced them. He never faced an elite fighter in their respective prime and as all fighters do occassionally, he had off nights yet he still managed to win for the most part one sidedly.


What you also fail to recognize is that Tyson went from a very disciplined and well supervised training regiment, to a group of people he controlled and picked and chose what he did or didnt want to do. I witnessed both trainers first hand and Rooney by far had more control and pushed Mike to do more, specifically sparring and bag work.

 

Agreed, as usual. I'm no boxing expert but this is so simple and to the point. Reminds me of that saying, "Keep it simple, stupid!"

Anyone who disagrees with this and tries to explain their other worldly theories and ideas needs to stop posting in Tyson threads. At least in the classic.

 

Because he rarely gave a f*ck anymore, not because he was "found out"!

 

Its a bit of both. Tyson had amazing potential but there was always going to be a short window where he could hold it all together. He was not mentaly as strong as some other ATG's. This was where he was found out. There were less talented ATG's who were mentaly a lot stronger. For a long time Tyson had all the best camps, he was a product of the best team effort of any champion - he had already benefited from many years of one to one expert technical training. By the time he was a champ nobody was going to teach him anything new although he was always in shape because training was all he had ever done. If you want to latch on to established opinion fine, I am thnking outside the box here. Tyson was a damaged person and it was harder for him to hold things together than most champions.

 

atsch

 

This maybe so but TYson himself has to take responsibilty. He still new how to fight, was the best in the world and fit enough to beat world class fighters with both camps.

 

I don't think Bruno's performance was any better than that of Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Jose Ribalta.
In fact, he did much more holding than those guys early on and was still knocked out quicker. Against what was almost certainly a lesser-prepared Tyson.

The only thing that Bruno did was he managed to briefly wobble Tyson and land a few heavy punches while it lasted. We can argue all day whether Tyson's sloppiness or Bruno's performance were the cause, and to what extent. Bruno, coming off a 16-month lay-off, wasn't exactly greatly prepared either. The argument is moot, Bruno didn't do well.
The thing that made his performance look good was that he was considered a bit of a joke going in, and Tyson had looked almost invincible in his last 3 or 4 fights. The fact that he wobbled Tyson was a big thing at the time, and much better than was expected of him.

But in the cold light of day, Bruno was well beaten, and well out of his depth. He wasn't much of a fighter. Tim Witherspoon didn't even train for Bruno, and still beat him.