Pac vs. Duran at Welterweight.

That Benitez exchange made my night.

 

Punished....Demolished.....Murder.... ;-) I love ESB general....oooooppppppssssss I mean classic. Duran has grown to near mythic proportions here, and you will be hard pressed to find a hypothetical he does not destroy some unworthy challenger in. On what basis would Duran destroy Pac, at any weight, but especially for this thread WW.

From 78 DeJesus fight when Duran vacated the title, to his loss in the 2nd SRL fight in 80 fought 8 fights at this weight and 2 above. He won 4 of those by stoppage: KO 2 Obando (0-3-0), KO 8 Brooks, tko 4 Nsubuga , tko 6 Wheatly (7-2-0)...2 of them are hardly worth mentioning, the other 2 several classes below the caliber of Pac. His best opponents SRL split & Carlos palomino UD.

Don't get me wrong I believe with all of my heart that Duran wins this and by more than just a round, over 15 I would up my pick to a tko. But c'mon what evidence is there that Duran destroyed anyone at this weight, and even less to support manny getting obliterated. Duran was great, but is not a God by any stretch.

 

Duran homoeroticism is a terrible thing, but the way to combat it is not to be brutally literal and obtuse, philly.

 

pac would not last a full 15 with Duran, not if we are taking the best of both at welterweight.

Duran of Palomino or Leonard 1 stops any version of pac around the 13th or 14th round IMO... he beats pac up & wins wide on points in a 12 rounder.

 

You have to gage him by the man who fought Leonard the first time ... That was a great welterweight ... that being said Paq had speed, power and conditioning to give him a nasty fight ...

 

Watch the last 35 rounds of Marquez-Pacquaio or first 12 of Morales-Pacquaio and get back to me

 

Because you had just said that people tend to make excuses for Duran`s loses yet you make one here for Ray Leonard. Taking away credit for one of the greatest victories anyone ever had.

Duran was able to stand right in front of Leonard and make him miss more punches that he usually does in 3 fights.

I think its a good fight but Pac lost to Morales and lets be honest an old ass Marquez.

I dont see Manny turning into Willie Pep all of a sudden with the greatest fighter he ever faced in front of him.

 

Ray won the rematch easily fighting his style of fight. And the third fight was a factor because even Ray who was worn out as a fighter still beat Duran easily when he boxed and used speed and did not fight Duran. In the third fight the little times when Ray stood in front of Duran he got cut.

As far as fights one and two, you can see how he fought differently Ray fought and his foot movement,and he said it as well as Angelo saying it -They said he was going to box and make Duran crazy. Ray even said in the rematch he was moving and Duran was flustered and he feints and Duran goes for the feint and covers up and Ray said "I got him now" I am not just saying words. The fights are there. The variable was Ray Leonard's style being proven in 2 more fights 9 years apart.

 

Ray intended to slug with Duran in the first fight but he didnt intend to get his ass kicked.


Once Duran hurt him 2nd or 3rd time why didnt he just shift gears and box? If it was that simple. Duran was cutting off the ring and not giving Leonard the time or room to box.

Besides that Ray Leonard had tools that Pac doesnt possess. Yes Manny is fast and a good puncher but he is also much shorter. He has none of the range of a RL or even a Benitez.

Manny is a slugger/boxer and a great one but he is not going to be able to avoid Duran`s punches. If Marquez can roll and counter Duran would do the same but there would be a big difference with the force of Duran`s shots.

Good fight. Duran being better defensvely would have the edge. Both guys have great offensive arsenals. Nobody integrated offense with defense like a young Duran.

 

The 3rd fight means nothing. Duran was 38 years old and fighting at middleweight. What has that got to do with what Duran would do with Pacquiao at Welterweight at or at least near his prime.

Be serious please. Pac is not an elusive fighter.

 

For the love of God, Ray Leonard himself said that Duran was in no condition to be as competitive in the rematch as he was in the first fight, and there's no reason someone with the will to win that Leonard did wouldn't have found a way to win with an adjus(t)ment if he could have. Duran made Leonard fight that way. Boxing has more to do with whose quick or not. Leonard didn't just leave his handspeed and Ring IQ in a box under his bead in Montreal. Your biased and simplistic one-liners about Duran got old a long time ago.

Duran was an expert at things that Manny is vulnerable to; 1 is a counter-punching from a fighter with a complete arsenal & good enough lateral movement to establish lead foot positioning, and 2 is intelligent pressure taking the fight to the inside. Duran was such a fluid fighter and crafty technician that I don't see Pacquiao beating him at all. He gives a good fight, but he's just not as good at boxing as Duran is.

 

Ray also said if he fought his fight he could beat Duran easily. My comments might get old, but they are based on facts not excuses. Duran fans think that the story when Duran lost was his excuses, and not that the guys he fought might have been faster and sharper. And Duran in these years was a champion which he gets credit for when he beat Davey Moore and Iran Barkley years after he fought his contemporaries Hearns,Leonard,Benitez,Hagler. I think he is great, but when I hear people say the variable for Duran losses was Duran's choice and had nothing to do with the greats he fought then I have to say what I think. He was good enough to beat Moore and Barkley for titles at 154 and 160 but he could not beat the legends he fought for titles at those same weights Hearns,Benitez,Hagler.

 

I mentioned the 3rd fight because you said Ray intended to slug but he didn't intend to get his ass kicked. So I was responding how when he fought his fight he won easily which was the second and third fights, so the thing about getting Duran to fight earlier because Duran went up in weight did not apply at 168 when Ray was getting old and still outclassed Duran with the boxing style. When Ray decided to box he beat Duran and would have every time after June 1980.
At other times people do not say Duran was prime at welterweight or near it. I still always say Duran fought at 154 before Hearns,Benitez or Leonard ever fought there.

 

Pac has great handspeed,but simply does not have the movement to beat Duran.He's not a better boxer than Duran and has never fought a better fighter than Duran.

 

So what Duran fought at 154 before the 2 you mentioned.All that means was that he was overweight,not naturally at that weight.Pac doesn't have the versatility that Leonard had.I don't know why you've tried to make this a Duran Leonard thread.Oh yeah I do.And Mayweather's never fought a better fighter than Duran either.