Lewis and Holmes who is greater?

This is actually one of the most intriguing HW match ups in history for me.
I'd pick Holmes to win a jab fest SD

 

:yepNo doubt Hook mate.

People have got to see the comedic value of posts like this, and his "Big lazy African Lion waking up and eating zebra's" post ( which i can't multi quote for some reason). Flawed genius.

 

At least he has the balls to come in the classic and spout his stuff, good luck to him. He's ****ing funny and he's got a bit of passion.

If he sticks around he might calm down a bit. Cut him some slack D.

 

Yeah, but one of those diseases he brought in might cause my own balls to drop off! (Look, not all of us have ventured into General to build up immunities.)

atschOh Jesus! I didn't even think about that. He might have unleashed a plague that causes us grizzled and isolated exclusive Classic posters to laugh our asses off as well!

Oh, he seems plenty calm. (Me, on the other hand, I've been chewing on a thermometer and had a blood pressure cuff on my arm ever since I clicked that link, and accidentally opened his door to the giant leper colony.)

 

Actually he did. Twice.

First of all it's "clinched" not "hugged."

Secondly, the stoppage was justified; Lewis got up too early and was on shaky legs. He was leaning on the ref for support. Tyson was in prison in 1994 and it wasn't until 1996 that Lewis rejected two offers from Don King. That's another story though. The rest of it is total bull**** that you are spewing and I can't be bothered to address it but I will say this, Don King didn't stop Lewis from blocking or evading that right hand and HBO said nothing of the sort.

Rahman was simply a mandatory, and given how unlikely his victory was what makes you think that some other random fighter wouldn't have pulled it off considering unfocused Lennox was for that fight.

As for Rahman being an anomaly time line situation? It doesn't change what happened in South Africa.

atsch

I don't even think your own reflection takes you seriously when it comes to all things boxing.

Whether or not he's serious, he's already polluted the thread.

Which 10 fighters would you place above Joe Louis on a H2H basis?

I think he's subtracting from thread rather than adding to it.

 

Not in any order and i am sure i could go on.

Ali
Lewis
Holmes
Wlad
Vitali
Bowe
Tyson
Foreman
Liston
Frazier
Holyfeild

Woops thats 11.

 

Holmes' unwillingness to make fights against his co-champions and top-ranked contenders severely hurts his legacy in my opinion. Also, Holmes never rematched tough fights, and he went on record (later in his career) saying that he didn't want to fight the big, strong, hungry fighters and preferred to fight the weaker, less threatening opposition. And still, after all this, Holmes still gets credited for having "taken on everyone" and for cleaning out his division. Lennox Lewis lost twice, of course, but he also regained the championship, made efforts to unify, and never ducked a top-ranked seemingly dangerous opponent (Chris Byrd, John Ruiz?! ha, quit it!) in favor of patsies.

A strong case can be made for Lewis ranking higher than Holmes on the basis of merit!

 

Marciano as well. Infect I'd probably put the Ike in there and there's probably a few 50-50s from top contenders since the 70s due to the amount that boxing has developed since Louis' era

 

Alright fella's i hear what you're saying, i'm a bit more tolerant with people that make me laugh that's all.

 

Yeah, laughing would be dangerous for me right now, what with all those post operative stitches in my mouth and nose at the moment.

 

:-(

Maybe
No
Maybe
No
No
Yes
Yes
No
Maybe
No
No

You are horribly underrating Joe Louis here.

 

Some of the Lenny fans in this thread... atsch

Get your boys in check, Kally!

 

I know many will disagree with me but I think Joe Louis KOs any version of George Foreman you put in front of him. Probably Liston as well though Sonny would be tougher fight.

I just cant see a guy {Foreman} walk to Joe Louis with his head up in the air and no headmovement, throwing wide punches and have the slower hands to boot having much more than than a punchers chance.

George Foreman could hit no question but Louis would get there first and much more often. I think its a early KO for Joe Louis.

 

I had an incredibly long post and it got deleted accidentally so I'll condense it and give you a summary.

I'm going to use 5 different criterion to compare Holmes and Lewis.

1. Tenure as Champion.
2. Quality of Opposition.
3. Ability as a Fighter.
4. Career Longevity.
5. Special Recognition/Records.

1. Tenure as Champion
Considering the majority of Holmes's legacy is based on his tenure as champion I'd say the edge here goes to Holmes. After all his over 7 year reign and 20 title defenses recorded is a mighty impressive feat. Lewis's tenure as champion didn't begin until 1999 and it lasted until 2003 with a blemish in between.

Advantage Holmes.

I should add that Lewis to me was more like "Fighter B" whereas Holmes was more like "Fighter A."

It'll make sense when you read the thread below.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38106


2. Quality of Opposition

Top 10 Names (In no order)

Holmes

1. Ken Norton
2. Ray Mercer
3. Tim Witherspoon
4. Gerry Cooney
5. Earnie Shavers
6. Bonecrusher Smith
7. Trevor Berbick
8. Carl Williams
9. Mike Weaver
10. Muhammad Ali

7 Champions, 2 Lineal.

Lewis

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Mike Tyson
3. Vitaly Klitschko
4. David Tua
5. Ray Mercer
6. Tommy Morrison
7. Razor Ruddock
8. Andrew Golota
9. Shannon Briggs
10. Frank Bruno

7 Champions, 4 Lineal

While they both have considerable depth in their resume, I think Lewis has a close edge over Holmes.

Advantage Lewis.

3. Ability as a fighter
This part is probably the most subjective criteria because they were both technically sound, and remarkably consistent fighters. It was rare to walk out of the ring with your arms raised when you faced Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis.

The best way to assess this match up is using a hypothetical; who would walk out with fewer losses if we took every single lineal Heavyweight Champion in history and put them in a round robin tournament; Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis?

Over the years I've seen Lewis' stock rise exponentially on the perception that he would have been too big for the old timers and his skills coupled with his power and size makes him too good for a lot of the modern fighters. There is no real mention of his chin though; Lewis these days seems to get the benefit of the doubt.

Holmes on the other hand is skilled, has stellar jab and decent right hand. He has pretty good hand speed and a proven chin. He isn't terribly big or imposing (at least not for today's standards) nor does he have one punch power; but he does have an underrated mean streak. Compared to most champions, Holmes, is very unassuming.

But when I assess the abilities of two incredibly consistent fighters when I look at their flaws it is Lewis who has a glaring deficiency not Holmes. After all, they were both suckers for right hands but the difference is when Holmes was decked by a big right hand and found himself on the canvas, he got up and continued to dominate his opponents winning a wide decision against Shavers and scoring the stoppage against Snipes. In Lewis's case when he was dropped by a big right hand from McCall & Rahman, his name appeared on their win column. Arguing the merits of the McCall stoppage doesn't exactly address the issue I'm driving at here nor will arguing what Lewis did in the rematch. It's a question of durability. History has shown that it took a lot more to close the show against Larry Holmes than it did to do the same to Lennox Lewis.

I guess I'm not prepared to hand over the reigns to Lewis in a knew jerk reaction simply because he looks great on paper. At the same time I'm not prepared to it over to Larry Holmes either.

If I were a manager for both Lewis and Holmes, who would I protect? After doing some soul searching and watching 6 Lewis fights and 6 Holmes fights as a refresher (I actually stopped writing this post and decided to watch a few fights before I continued) I've decided to give the edge to Lewis, not because I think he's more skilled (On the contrary I think Holmes is more skilled) but because he has the equalizer.

Advantage Lewis

4. Career Longevity

Career Longevity is where they both score high. Lewis's longevity is predicated on the fact that he outlasted his contemporaries while Holmes's "2nd Career" (post Spinks) saw him fight for and earn a title shot against Evander Holyfield.

Lewis's coming out party was in 92 against Ruddock and his swan song was against Vitaly Klitschko in 2003. Holmes coming out party was against Shavers in '78 and swan song was against Oliver McCall in '95. Post 1995 Holmes had no more relevance.

Holmes not only fought longer but he also has more fights under his belt.

Advantage Holmes.

5. Special Recognition/Records

Lennox Lewis has the distinction as being one of the few fighters to leave the sport on top. At Heavyweight, only Jim Jeffries, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano can make that claim. Though Jeffries came back and lost to Johnson and Louis came back and lost to Charles and Marciano.

Lewis has also has beaten every man he's ever faced including his heir apparent Vitaly Klitschko.

Larry Holmes on the other hand has an unbeaten streak of 48 straight wins which is unmatched by other Heavyweight Champion with the exception of Rocky Marciano. He also has 20 title defenses under his belt.

While they both have compelling cases for this criteria I have to give the clear edge to Holmes. And that is why I have him ahead.

Advantage Holmes.