Was Jack Johnson lying or telling the truth on the following statements?

I think ketchell went into the fight thinking he could win, but that doesn't mean johnson hadn't agreed to anything because it was clearly good for business to let the fight last a while.

 

Johnson was in front up to the 20th round, with a commanding lead ,after that he faded ,and the fresher Willard began to take the initiative, forcing the action and landing solildly on Johnson.
Personally, I think it is one of Johnson's greatest performances going 26 rds at 37, fat ,and dissipated,against a giant for 78 minutes of fighting ,in conditions that his opponent described as" hotter than hell". Johnson had two of his gold teeth dislodged earlier in the fight and swallowed them,"my pride would not let me spit them out". It was no fix.

 

OK. I must have mis-read something.

:huh
You're a strange guy.
I just offered a personal opinion, a general contribution to the thread, not aimed at anyone in particular.

It was YOU who quoted my post and picked at what I had said and tried to prove me wrong to say it.
And somehow that's me trying to wind you up ?

 

There are reports of Ketchel and Johnson rehearsing their act in Barney Curley's hotel room ,with assertions that Ketchel said," I can't pull a punch" and Jack saying ,"well just do what you do, we'll give them a show", or words to that effect", I watched the knockdown of Johnson twice this morning, in slow mo. I'm almost convinced he was heading towards the floor before the punch landed. Who knows?

 

You don't know the half of it.

 

Did Johnson NOT say this ?

 

:good

 

I'm convinced of the same thing.

 

You certainly offended Kevin Smith, he came on here expressly to attack you about twisting his words for your agenda driven crusade.

I've warned you before about using words you cannot understand, much less spell.



Have you got those lies I told, ready to post?

PLEASE PRODUCE THEM.
I'm sure everyone would like to see them.

 

Mr Bearden, styles himself a "sometime writer of Fantasy,and Science Fiction" in that he is obviously correct.
1. Mr Bearden states that Johnson scaled 209lbs to Ketchel's 160lbs.
Actual weights were Johnson 205.5lbs to Ketchel's 170.25lbs

2 Mr Bearden states that Ketchel doubled Johnson up in the 2nd rd with a body shot .
Film of the 2nd rd shows no such occurence.

3.Mr Bearden states Johnson was down for around 8 or 9 seconds.
Film shows Johnson was on the deck for between 4 and 5 seconds.

4. Mr Bearden states that rounds 9-11 wwere mostly Ketchel.

In rd 9 Johnson picks up a nearly exhausted Ketchel and sets him back on his feet, talking to him ,as he does so.
Film proves it.


5. Mr Bearden states Johnson's face was marked. Johnson had no marks on his face after the fight , as contemporary papers commented upon.

6. Mr Bearden states that Johnson asserted the fight was a fix and that he carried Ketchel. He implies that Johnson only took advantage of Ketchel's death to spread this story .

Johnson told friends the next day that Ketchel double crossed him . Johnson made no public statement that he carried Ketchel ,it would not have been in his interest to do so would it?

If Johnson had publicly spread that story, would Ketchel not have had a year to deny it? Johnson and Ketchel were close friends.


Rumours the fight was not going to be kosher were widespread before it began, it was in the interest of all the involved parties to keep a low profile as the film rights would have been devalued drastically if it was known to have been a fix.


Mr Bearden has posted on this site.
He put up a thread concerning myths and stories of boxing one about Willie Pep, the celebrated story that Pep won a round without landing a punch against Jackie Graves, Mr Bearden asserts it is true. Sorry to debunk it, but it isn't ,Pep won the round ok, but he landed some jabs. Mr Bearden was born in 1954, the Graves fight was in 1946, so he never saw it.
In the same piece he calls Muhammad Ali , Muhammed, and Sonny Liston, Listion.
Mr Bearden undoubtedly satisfies Mendoza's criteria, as does Dan McCaferry who wrote that badly researched, sloppily compiled ,crap booklet on Tommy Burns. But then,.anything negative about Jack Johnson, is meat and rink to Mendoza, his hater- in -chief. the truth of such stories is irrelevant, just as long as they are negative.

I bought the Ketchel/ Johnson fight over 40 years ago from Black Hawk films USA. The copy I have did not have a slow motion section of the Johnson knockdown,,several of those on You Tube have it,I watched it twice again today ,imo. Johnson appears to be falling before the punch lands. Don't take my word for it ,and certainly not the word of Mr Bearden, watch it, and make your own minds up.

 

Here is Jack Johnson's take on the Stanley Ketchell situation from over 100 years ago.


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=S ... page&hl=en

You will need to turn to page 21.

I think Johnson's account is very believable. He says there was no fix, but he did drop on purpose to sell films. I think it is all pretty consistent with film, and even if he lied about other things, i am not too sure that he lied about this.

And if anyone is interested in reading that full series of articles, most of the links should be here.

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=147068&p=3131481&hilit=jack+johnson+story#p3131481

 

Good to see you back B.:good