Why Vitali and Wladmir Klitschko will considered only as Great and not the Greatest?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Aswin_astron, May 11, 2012.


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  1. Aswin_astron

    Aswin_astron New Member Full Member

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    I personally feel that Klitschkos are great champions. BUt I would never consider them to be the greatest because:

    1) Their reputation is purely based on their combined record (Vitali's record + Wladmir). It is well known that Wladmir clearly never cleaned the division on his own, but rather Vitali did beat some boxers for him (Sanders, Puritty).

    2) They never faced the second best heavyweight in the division like others. ALi faced Frazier, Norton, and Foreman. Lewis faced Holyfield, Tyson, and many other heavyweights. It's true that the brothers don't wanna hurt each other, but unfortunately, they cannot call themself the greatest if they don't fight their immediate competition.

    3) Many people claim that Vitali is better than Lewis because Lewis got hurt in his last fight and retired at the age of 37, while Vitali is still dominating. Unfortunately, the same people fail to ignore the following

    A) Lewis fought many devastating punchers during his time(when they were in their prime), namely:
    Razor Ruddock
    Tommy Morrison
    Shannon Briggs
    Holyfield
    Ray Mercer
    David Tua
    Andrew Golota
    Jack Bruno.
    He also fought competitive yet fading boxers such as Michael Grant, Mike Tyson, and Botha . As we all know, Boxing is a cruel sport, the more competitive the fights get, the MORE WEAR AND TEAR YOUR BODY EXPERIENCES.

    To put it shortly, while Vitaly is still in peak condition in his 40s not only because he works out regularly, but more because of the fact that he faced less number of dangerous punchers in his career. The only devastating punchers he faced are 1) Lewis (On his way out of boxing) 2) Corrie Sanders and 3) Sam Peter. I am afraid the rest are not that great when compared to a peak, in-form, SHannon Briggs, David Tua, Ruddock, or Golota. Therefore, less competitive fights===== Less wear and tear.
    Please note that Vitali also took a long break from boxing and came back when the division was almost deplete

    B) Wladimir is the greatest because he possess greatest punching power when compared to Lewis. --This statement might be true, but just possessing punching power alone never makes you a great boxer. There is no use in possessing a TOMMY GUN, if you are not ready to pull the trigger till your target is at point blank range. I am afraid Lewis, while possessing slightly less ONE PUNCH KO power, still possess the arsenal and heart to beat the hell out of his opposition. Example: His fights against Ray MErcer, first fight against Bruno, Fight against Shannon Briggs and Vitali.


    C) Vitali is the greatest because he never got knocked down or trailed behind the scorecards in any match while Lewis has got KTFO in 2 matches against bums like Oliver Mccall and Rahman.


    Partly true. When it comes to punch resistance, Vitali's chin easily is the greatest chin of the modern era. Let me give credit to his ability to never trail on the scorecards and not getting knocked down even once.
    But unfortunately, Vitali's chin is yet to truly get tested. Only two fighters have really bothered Vitali, LEWIS AND CORRIE SANDERS. Unfortunately, Lewis won the match due to TKO and Corrie Sanders lacked the stamina and heart to defeat Vitali and got stopped.

    Also, Mccall and Rahman weren't bums. Oliver Mccall was a capable boxer, who was also Tyson's sparring partner. He had decent boxing skills and capabale power to land devastating punches. As for Rahman, he was a crude boxer, who had underrated KO power. It's quite unfortunate for Lewis that he was at the wrong end on both these fights. HE avenged them like a true champion though.


    D) People called Wladimir the greatest because he always knocks his opponents out no matter what and has the second best KO percentage.
    This is really silly considering the quality of Wladmir's opposition when compared to Lewis.

    Some of the best names Wladmir beat are as follows:
    Chris Byrd
    Lamon Brewster
    Chagaev
    Sultan Ibrahimov
    Hasim Rahman
    Ray Mercer
    David Haye
    Jameel Mccline


    When you see the names in the list, apart from 2-3, all the others are moderate to good boxers, but none of them were great boxers apart from Eddie Chambers and Chris Byrd, who were master technicians. I cannot count Mercer because he was 42 years old when he fought Wladmir.

    When you compare this to Lewis's opposition, he fought:
    Oliver Mccall
    Razor Ruddock
    Frank Bruno
    Tommy Morrison
    Evander Holyfield
    Mike Tyson
    Andrew Golota
    Shannon Briggs
    David Tua
    Vitali Klitschko
    Ray Mercer

    Please note that the list not only included 4-5 Hall of Famers, but listed boxers who were heavyweight champions before or after facing Lewis and fought LEWIS DURING THEIR PRIME.

    Compare Lewis's records with that of the Klitschko Brothers and judge yourselves.

    Final Verdict - To be the greatest, you gotta fight great competition, most importantly, the second best boxer of your generation, to be called the greatest. While we can be thankful to Wladmir and Vitali for still providing respect to the heavyweight division, we cannot overrate them and call them the greatest.

    Vitali doesn't become the greatest just because he beat a 37 year old war-torn Lewis into retirement. You should not be proud of beating a boxer, who had just fought the best the division offered and still came on top. Fluke cut or not, Lewis had to offer Vitali a rematch, but choose not to. While many people call it cowardly, I call it a wise decision. Why on EARTH should Lewis risk his 16 year old legacy by fighting a young and hungry fighter again when he beat him.

    What if Lewis had sportingly agreed to the rematch and Vitali had beaten him. I am sure people would have villified Lewis for agreeing and then totally discredited his legacy just because of his one loss. Remember Joe Louis loss to Marciano. How that one loss totally discredited his career and made MArciano an ATG eventhough he had not fought a single 210+ pounder in his prime.


    Many people claim that Vitali would have knocked out Lewis had the match continued beyond the 6th round. I would consider this total bull****. Lewis was pounding Vitali's face with huge right hands. Having seen the extent of damage to Vitali's eyes, it would have just taken two right hands to permanently damage his eye. Even if Vitali had somehow knocked out Lewis, he would have still done irreparable damage and perhps would have lost out on a glorious career, which he is having know.

    Let's appreciate the Klitschkos and Lewis for what they did. Let's not overrate them.
     
    Aswin_astron, May 11, 2012
    Aswin_astron, May 11, 2012
    #1
  2. Malden

    Malden 006 Full Member

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    :pop
     
    Malden, May 11, 2012
    Malden, May 11, 2012
    #2
  3. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis

    THE FACTS

    Vitali took the fight on just 10 days notice.

    Vitali was clearly winning the fight 4-2 on all 3 scorecards at the time of the controversial doctor stoppage. Lewis barely survived the 2nd round and almost got KO'd, he was out on his feet, badly hurt, holding on for dear life, wobbling everywhere and staggering around the ring like a drunk. Lewis was badly hurt several times in the fight and was getting outslugged, outworked, outmuscled, outclassed, outlanded and outboxed by Vitali.

    punches landed

    Vitali 156

    Lewis 102


    Lewis was exhausted, worn down and hurt from the accumulation of punches and was ready to get KTFO again, he collapsed onto his stool at the end of the 6th round, Vitali was clearly the fresher of the two, he would've KO'd Lewis for sure if the fight had continued.

    After the fight, Vitali intimidated the **** out of Lewis and made him look like a *****. The whole crowd cheered for Vitali and booed Lewis.

    Lewis promised Vitali a rematch.

    Vitali destroyed Kirk Johnson in 2 rounds and called out Lewis again in the post fight interview. The gutless coward Lewis retired shortly after that fight.

    Lewis turned down 40 million dollars for a rematch and retired like a coward because he knew he would get destroyed by Vitali.

    Vitali dominated Lewis and scared his ***** ass into retirement.

    This content is protected


    George Foreman: "Vitali was winning the fight. Lewis got lucky. There has to be a rematch!"

    Jim Lampley: "A lucky escape for Lewis who was clearly losing the fight"

    Even Emanuel Steward was upset and pissed off at Lewis for blatantly ducking a Vitali rematch.

    Lewis is scared to death of Vitali.
     
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    #3
  4. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    It was a controversial bull**** doctor stoppage.

    Vitali got robbed. The corrupt doctor and ref were on Lennox's payroll.

    It should've been a TD win for Vitali.

    Official Scorecards:

    Pat Russell: Vitali 58-56

    James Jen-Kin: Vitali 58-56

    Tom Kaczmarek: Vitali 58-56

    HBO: Vitali 58-56

    Sky Sports: Vitali 58-56

    Lennox's mom: Vitali 58-56

    My Round By Round Scorecard:

    Round 1: Vitali 10-9
    Round 2: Vitali 10-8
    Round 3: Vitali 10-9
    Round 4: Vitali 10-9
    Round 5: Vitali 10-9
    Round 6: Vitali 10-9

    Lewis was badly hurt several times, almost KO'd, outworked, outslugged, outmuscled, outboxed, outlanded, outclassed, dominated and retired by Vitali.

    Vitali would've given Lewis his 3rd KO loss if the fight had continued.
     
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
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  5. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    Vitali wasn't even in his prime yet.

    Lewis was 37 when he got his ass whooped by Vitali.

    Vitali is 40 and is still dominant HW champ.

    Lewis was coming off the win over Tyson. In the Lewis-Tyson post fight interview Lewis stated "I'm like fine wine, I get better with age"

    In an interview right before the Vitali fight, Lewis said "I'm at the peak of my powers, I will keep fighting for many more years"

    Vitali dominated Lewis and scared him into retirement.
     
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    #5
  6. terbear2187

    terbear2187 Guest

    until they face theres greatest opposition they cant ever be considered greatest ever, yes there the best heavyeweights out currently and i forsee it being that way for a very long time but at the same time you have to fight the best in your division regardless of who it is. so until they fight each other they are just good heavyweights. your in the fight game, your a prize fighter you should have to accept all challenges that includes family. them not fighting each other makes them just as bad as mayweather and pac 2 big pussys we play millions to duck and dodge the best of there era in there perspective weight classes
     
    terbear2187, May 11, 2012
    terbear2187, May 11, 2012
    #6
  7. canucks9314

    canucks9314 Iron Chinned ATG Warrior Full Member

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    Hey man, where's my top 10 list?
     
    canucks9314, May 11, 2012
    canucks9314, May 11, 2012
    #7
  8. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
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  9. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    This content is protected

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    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
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  10. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
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  11. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    Vitali would've easily destroyed Lewis in a rematch.
     
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    #11
  12. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    FACTS about Vitali Klitschko
    - WBC Heavyweight Champion of the world

    - All Time Great and Hall Of Famer

    - Has never truly lost

    - There is no blueprint to beat him

    - He is unbeatable

    - Statistically most dominant fighter of all time

    - He has dominated every opponent he has ever faced

    - 46 have tried and 46 have been dominated

    - Has never been behind on the scorecards

    - Has never lost more than 2 rounds in a fight

    - Has never been knocked down

    - Has made 12 title defences

    - Greatest Heavyweight Champ KO% of all time

    - Only man ever to be world heavyweight champ in boxing and kickboxing

    - Vitali is 40 and is still dominant HW champ


    FACTS about Wladimir Klitschko

    - IBF/WBO/WBA/IBO/RING Unified Heavyweight Champion of the world

    - All Time Great and Hall Of Famer

    - Olympic Gold Medalist

    - 57 wins, 50 knockouts

    - Statistically 2nd most dominant fighter of all time

    - Has made 17 title defences

    - Has defeated 9 undefeated fighters

    - Has defeated 11 world champions


    FACTS about Lennox Lewis

    - coward

    - ducker

    - fraud

    - bitter butthurt *****

    - Lewis was badly hurt several times, almost KO'd, outworked, outslugged, outmuscled, outboxed, outlanded, outclassed, dominated and retired by Vitali.

    - blatantly ducked Vitali Klitschko rematch, Wladimir Klitschko, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, etc.

    - got KTFO by Rahman, who was destroyed by Wlad

    - got KTFO by McCall, who was dominated twice by Juan Carlos Gomez, who destroyed was by Vitali

    - got a gift decision against Mercer, who was annihilated by Wlad (was the first man to knockdown and KO Mercer)
     
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
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  13. Vladimir23

    Vladimir23 Boxing Addict banned

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    Quotes from Steward:

    “Wladimir is gonna be the one I don’t think I could train a man to beat the way he is. I’m serious. I’ve never had a fighter – I went from Holyfield and all the guys I’ve worked with, never, Lennox – Wladimir is a very, very committed, very difficult fighter to beat. Because he won’t let you fight him. He makes you fight what he wants you to fight. But the biggest thing which I think people are not looking at is his speed for a big man. Tremendous speed. Foot Speed. He can move in, explode, move out, move back in, explode, and I’ve never seen anyone that could…move in and out and be in perfect balance,”

    "Wladimir has better one-punch knockout capability than Lennox"

    "Wlad has the best footwork, coordination and balance of any fighter I ever worked with. He’s the most accurate, single-punch knockout guy I have ever seen. A guy can be completely fine, not hurt, and Wladimir can put his lights out with one shot."

    "Wladimir’s coordination is better and he is the most powerful natural talent than any other heavyweight I have worked with."

    "In terms of jab, Wladimir is the best and after him I would put Lennox. In terms of boxing arsenal, Wladimir is better than Lennox."
     
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    Vladimir23, May 11, 2012
    #13
  14. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    I am one of the biggest Klitschko fans around but I could never place them higher than Ali or Louis

    those 2 are probably set in stone forever

    Wlad may have a chance at passing Lewis or Holmes if he reigns long enough but even that is a stretch
     
    KO KIDD, May 11, 2012
    KO KIDD, May 11, 2012
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  15. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    I didn't read any of this thread but I just want to say that Manny Pacquiao is just cute as a button when he sings Beatles songs.
     
    Boxed Ears, May 11, 2012
    Boxed Ears, May 11, 2012
    #15
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