ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

Very good not great.

beat some great fighter like samkor and Sam- A. too big to fight the best in thailand now so he fights internationally. past few years has been on a steep decline, and I doubt he will ever return to form (2009 and before).

 

I feel exactly the same way.

The JWP fight would’ve been real interesting a few years ago, I really wonder why that never happened, seems odd as it was an obvious fight to be made. I doubt weight was an issue, I'd love to hear what really went on there?:think

I agree with Yaca, he basically sums it up pretty well. He beat some great Thais but he also lost to alot, maybe cancelling his ATG ticket, but he's not far off. He’s another true Thai badass, beautiful and exciting to watch, with great technique. He’s a 3 time Lumpinee champ including a belt at 112, which tells you a lot about his calibre, that’s one competitive division in Thailand.

The thing is most of these Thais, Buakaw included, have already had their glory days before most people outside Thailand really get to have a good look at them. They are in their fight primes when they are fighting on the Thai scene at lower weights and at younger ages. Once they reach that welter/super welter weight they are usually late in their careers and can’t cut the weight as much anymore. They then go on the international circuit, where they become international stars with much of their Thai fight history largely unknown to the new international fight fans that are watching them.

So essentially the moment they start making their name in the West and Japan they are “over the hill”, but still have so much experience and skill they can compete and very often beat their foreign opposition. Some due to natural body weight and size are at their absolute pinnacle when they start fighting westerners which seems very much to have been the case with Yod, but are on an inevitable slide due to age and battle weary bodies. Remember before the west sees them some have had over 200 fights and are very old by Thai Muay Thai standards 26, 27 28….bloody ancient.

So, judging Thais from the later part of their career and record of international bouts isn’t always an accurate gage of their calibre and quality. I largely agree with Yaca’s assessment of Yod, but I’d say Yaca’s return to form date of 2009 is a bit late, it’s probably nearer 2005-6.

For Thai’s fighting abroad, it’s kind of like how Italian and South American football players used to view the English football premiership, great place to pick up some paydays and play out my retirement after the glory days in Italy.

 

Talking of famous Thai fighters in their heydays before they hit the international scene, well here's a young Buakaw against Sakatpetch .

Great finish. :scaredas:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxr8IOYNNZU&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL606EB2619F2B2341[/ame]

 

Boranbkk, have you ever considered writing a short book/tutorial regarding what you've learned technique wise in Thailand regarding muay thai?

I've combed through this thread and have very much enjoyed what you've written regarding technique thus far. Great attention to detail and the logic behind why things are done how they are.

If you don't mind me asking, also, what is your fight record/experiences/history in the sport?

Also, to add to this thread...big fan of Karuhat Sor Suphawan and Ole Kiatoneway, two fighters who I think have very tricky styles but effective styles.

Attachai Por Samranchai, being a generation removed from those two guys, reminds me a bit of them style wise. Lots of interesting angles, great timing and great set ups.

 

Hey Stormy, welcome to ESB and the ATG Muay Thai thread.

Attachai Por Samranchai, Ole Kiatoneway (a southerner) and Karuhat Sor Suphawan. Great names and all in the same post, I take it you like your Muay Thai huh!:thumbsup

Very very good call by noticing some very common elements to their styles and stringing them all together. I wouldn’t have naturally thought of them like that, but as you put their names together I decided to watch some clips of them back to back and you’re right the similarities become very obvious. All three had the rare ability to stay very calm under heavy pressure. Great examples of patience great anticipation and well-timed counter attacking at the highest MT level, which isn’t easy to master in combat sport which is essentially built around a stalking pressure style.

For me Attachai was the more complete offensive package and very very attractive to watch, great hands, kicks, knees elbows, but without maybe (arguable) quite the level of defensive skills both Ole and Karuhat had. (Look at the clips below I think Ole must have had eyes in his arse the way he sees mid and high level round kicks coming!!).:shock:

Some clips for the other guys to enjoy:

Karuhat Sor Suphawan vs. Nungubon Sitlergchai

(This clip is really interesting cos it highlights the difference in pay from the Golden age and now. The commentator mentions the winner of this fight got 570,000 baht, a massive amount in Thailand especially if you consider now the top boys only fight for 1 to 200,000 baht, how things have changed!)


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dQ195B8WM[/ame]


Ole Clips:


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfwv_i0ppss[/ame]


Ole in Red against Therdkiat Sittepitak what a scrap for the Lupinee title.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnoBOcTkMik[/ame]


A good but long Attachai Highlight:


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDcd_NQyc1M[/ame]


Thanks for the kind comments about my posts on technique, glad you enjoyed them and hope they’re helpful. About writing a book, no not really my thing and at the moment I’m in a similar but very different world and besides there are better qualified guys out there to do it. Although some of the **** I’ve seen attached to this sport would make Rocky look like a fairy tale!

About me and my history in the sport, well I’m not a famous fighter if that’s what you’re wondering. Fighting at around 58 to 60 kilos in Thailand there isn’tt exactly a shortage of guys at that weight, way too much competition for me to make a dent at that time. I was once summed up as having an attractive style, talent and good skills but could be inconsistent, very good some days and under perform others.

I’ll give you a brief run down but I do value the mystic of a little anonymity on the internet, so I won’t be too specific. If you’ve read my post you know I put quite a lot of personal experiences and a few names in them so if you know me you can piece it all together. I’m basically a Muay Thai purist who’s had a lifelong love affair with MT. Started in 88-89 and retired in about 2002 in Bangkok, just before everything exploded, MMA, K1 etc. etc. Fought in both Thailand and the west and have spent 10 years straight in Thailand (not all as a fighter) and am now based between BKK and London. I was lucky to experience the tail end of Muay Thai’s golden era of the 90s in Thailand and had the honour to meet and train with many brave guys over the years some well known some not so well known. I’m 37 so still keep myself fit and still train MT occasionally with a mind to opening my own modest gym in Trang, Southern Thailand in the not too distant future.

Quid, pro quo….What’s your interest are you an MMA guy or a Muay Thai guy?

 

Definitely agree about Attachai being the more complete offensive fighter. Of the fighters I've seen from the 2000's era, he's probably my favorite overall. The slick yet aggressive/offensive style is what I enjoy watching most.

Great clips; Karuhat vs Nungubon was the first time I had seen either of them fight and after learning about how accomplished a career Nungubon had, I'm even more impressed at how well Karuhat looked in that fight. Great timing, defense/counters and control of the fight.

That's awesome you got to live the dream and fight in Thailand, and at a young age too. 58 - 60kg is definitely a premier weight class to fight in; but hey, no better way to get better than to be in with top competition. I wish you the best of luck with your gym. Definitely respect the anonymity as well.

Regarding myself. I'm just a fan; primarily boxing and muay thai. I've been watching boxing for a while, got into muay thai in about the last 4 years or so but have very much enjoyed studying up on it and learning the history and past/present fighters. It's a bit hard since I don't speak Thai to keep up with all the current guys so I pick and choose and follow the ones who I enjoy.
Big fan of Sam A, Jomthong, Nong O, Noppakrit, Palangpon, and Panumrunglek(also an accomplished western boxer) at the moment. Still a bit surprised at the recent loss Sam A suffered. I also like to watch Thongchai Tor Silachai when he fights. I know he's getting quite old in age, 39-40 I believe. It's amazing to watch him still perform at a pretty high level.

No relevant fight experience, tried my hand at amateur boxing for a bit and really enjoyed it but had to stop because of school. I do have dreams of going to Thailand for an extended bit and living the life of a nak muay properly. I'm much too old to go anywhere in it, but I think it would be an incredible experience to have.

Looking forward to reading more of your posts BoranBKK and glad to join this community.

 

Wow! 2 posts! Welcome to the thread and ESB, please keep contributing :good

 

Hey Stormy, good to have you and hope you stick around the more the merrier.

Sounds like you may a have a shared passion for Thai's in iwestern boxing with the last poster Flea who's an encylodedia of orientals in western boxing, well combat sports in general.

And the extended trip to Thailand, all I can say is do it, it'll be with you for life.

 

Well, to be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of Thai's in western boxing usually. As many have said in this thread, their style is a bit limited generally; of course there are exceptions. I do like to see how Thai's who have fought successfully in both games adapt their skills and see where the crossovers lie. A few standouts that I've spent a bit of time watching are Panumrunglek, Samart, Veeraphol and Somrak.

I recently watched Kongtoranee's fight against Khaosai. I was very impressed with how well Kongtoranee fought, even though he did decisively lost. Khaosai was a steamroller in his prime.

In western boxing, I'm much more of a fan of slick but offensive fighters, same as in muay thai. Guys like Jose Napoles, Mike Mccallum, James Toney, Roberto Duran, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore, Alexis Arguello, JMM, to name a few at the top of my favorites.

 

Sumbu Kalambay>McCallum :yep

 

Yeah, I agree even though Khosai bossed it I thought Kongtoranee did really really well escpecially considereing he looked a weight class or two below Khosai in the fight. Listening to the commentary the announcer is saying how the fight had really caught the imagination of the Thai people in the build up and split them down the middle 50/50 in predictions, the hype and anticipation must of been nuts at the time.

I agree Khasoi was a beast, a human wrecking machine. He get's no love or respect in the main ESB boxing forum, I've had to stick up for him and remind peole of his quality twice already this month on the main forum.:-(

The vid clip below is for Flea, not for the fight but a few names to faces we've mentioned before.

Remember in some of my early posts I mentioned a guy with one eye who basically controls the best boxers and international boxing scene in Thailnad, Lieuwvat (not sure how to spell it) the man waving his hands heavily at 4.04.

Also remember the Godfather of Thailand I mentioned, Mr Klao Thanikul who owned the gym I trained at Sor. Thanikul, he's at 4.08 with Kongtoranee. At the time he was responsible for the olympic team and ran the Muay Thai scene until his assasination in1991, when Somchai (with Kongtoranee at 4.45) took over. People whisper he was in on the dirty deed.

Some how Mr. Klao was inviolved with both Payakaroon brothers form an early stage, I think as a promoter. I think early in their careers they may have trained at Thanikul for a period as I have Thai DVD all about Samart and in some of his fights he's named as Samart Sor Thanikul on the DVD back blurp. Pre 1991 he probabaly promoted most of their fights in Lumpini.(?)


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amqH9C5g-e8[/ame]

I'd never seen that. What a great fight. :good

Great jabs on display from both fighters. He really made it hard for the body snatcher to snatch the body!

 

Did you watch the first or second? Second is one of the greatest two-way technical displays of all time. The first the best schooling ever captured on film IMO.

As for Khaosai, that may be my fault ;-) I've been round spouting 'he ain't the greatest Thai' for years

Thank you SO MUCH for the commentary translation. That's going in the book :bowdown :thumbsup (where is the 'I love you' smiley?)

As for Kong, he seemed a natural super fly. Khaosai, like Sot Chitalada at the sane time, was cutting barely shy of 20lbs! That seems commonplace then, but as 24 hour weigh in's were not introduced for most of Khaosai's reign, it's no surprise he was an absolute tank at the weight!

Contreras had similar size (success at bantam afterwards) and same heavy punch (sparked Vasquez Sr inside a round, battered Espinosa, who has the weird TKO victory over Khaokor) and he really made Khaosai dig deep, rocking him badly and landing the better shots until Khaosai wasted him. Great shootout between two beasts.

 

I've only seen the first Kalambay/Mccallum fight and was amazed at how effective Sumbu was outboxing Mccallum while moving backwards/laterally. Very slick and a GREAT jab.
I'm in the process of downloading the second one to watch soon this week.

Khaosai, for his weight class/general size, had an extremely imposing physique. In some fights I couldn't believe how much larger/stockier he seemed compared to his opponent. Cutting 20 lbs? That's nuts.
I can see why he might not get as much love here though. He wasn't really that pretty to watch boxing. But he had the strength, toughness and power to still reach the top.

Do you know if there are clips/fights of Samart's from before he went to western boxing and then came back to muay thai?

I've seen all there is to find on the net, and it seems that the only fight of his that seems from his pre western boxing days is against Soudareth, and he puts a hurting on him. It was extremely impressive to see him fight in stalker mode while still utilizing technique/timing to shut down anything Soudareth tried. It looked kind of like some of Yod's best fights against foreigners, but even more refined and explosive.

The other fights, Wangchannoi, Jaroenthong, Samransak, Nampon, etc I believe are from his second run and even though he displays technical superiority in all of em(cept for fading REALLY bad in the second half of the Wanchannoi fight), the flow of his fights at that point seem to be, if he doesn't take em out early, then he tends to take a back pedal/counter attack style and coast.
One really impressive thing I notice in all of these later fights, is he knows when he's going to have an easy night or not. It seems to me that when he decides it's gonna take more work than he wants to take a guy out, he ends up coasting the rest of the fight. Kind of a Roy Jones mentality, it seems.
The only foreigner who I've seen give him some sort of a fight was Gilbert Ballantine.

 

I've posted a pre-boxing clip of Samart on here I THINK :think

Black & white footage, incredible battering :good