What is a realistic "p4p atg top 10" in your oppinion?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Chempasillo, May 21, 2012.


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  1. devon

    devon Guest

    I'm waiting
     
    devon, May 22, 2012
    devon, May 22, 2012
    #31
  2. bodyheadic

    bodyheadic Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 11, 2012
    Basilio
    Fullmer
    Lamotta
    Armstrong
    Gavilan
    Angott
    Zivic
     
    bodyheadic, May 22, 2012
    bodyheadic, May 22, 2012
    #32
  3. Chempasillo

    Chempasillo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 5, 2011

    what has money or being a prima donna to do with how good a boxer you are. than sugar ray leonard or sugar ray robinson were prima donnas, because back in the days, they were making a lot of money :patsch

    boxers from today can be as tough as boxers from the past. otherwise legendary fights like vasquez-marquez or pacquiao-cotto wouldnt exist. boxers to this day sadly sometimes die in that ring.

    manny climbed like7 or 8 divisions, beat most top guys, that historicly so wonderful and rare, he must be in the top 10 atg, resume wise and skill wise.

    floyd's defence > willie pepp, even pernell's defence. floyd is also top 10. undefeated and beating future atg like oscar, mosley or marquez and so many guys bigger than him, like coralles, castillo, genaro and cotto is also fantastic.

    and finaly since you love to talk about tough fighters than just watch what comes from eastern europe, guys like vitaly who have there face smashed and still wanna continue or asia, like abraham, who make full 12 rounds with an ribbed of jaw. mexicans, latins overall......:!:

    toughness often comes from poverty and poverty will be everywhere in the world, always!!!!
     
    Chempasillo, May 22, 2012
    Chempasillo, May 22, 2012
    #33
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What the type of list you are talking about is a list of All Time Great fighters. Greatness is a matter of achievment. It's a little hard to argue with Langford being ranked above Mayweather on this type of list when Langford out-boxed the best boxer of his generation (Gans) and went on to KO with one punch one of the era's best HW's (Wills).

    This would be the equivalent of someone out-boxing Mayweather at 135 - by shutout - before KOing Evander Holyfield with a single punch in round 12.

    You seem to be confusing this with All Time Best lists, or composite lists. If you think that modern fighters are better - flat out better at boxing - your top ten will naturallly be comprised of different fighters to a historian's All Time Great list.

    So you're talking about comparing apples and oranges, really.
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    #34
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Here's my top 10 all time p4p list, kinda:

    01 - Sam Langford
    02 - Harry Greb
    03 - Sugar Ray Robinson
    04 - Henry Armstrong
    05 - Bob Fitzsimmons
    06 - Ezzard Charles
    07 - Muhammad Ali
    08 - Benny Leonard
    09 - Joe Gans
    10 - Archie Moore

    Now, a list of the best ten fighters ever to box might look totally differnt. It might include names like Pernell Whitaker, Wilfredo Gomez, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leoanrd, with maybe only Robinson and Armstrong and Leonard surviving from that original list.

    Get it?
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    #35
  6. Chempasillo

    Chempasillo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 5, 2011

    good point. I am irritated :tired:lol:

    like I said, we should make 2 lists. greatness (only resume) list & quality (only skills) list. the combination of both lists might be the key of who realy were the 10 best boxers ever :yep
     
    Chempasillo, May 22, 2012
    Chempasillo, May 22, 2012
    #36
  7. Chempasillo

    Chempasillo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Feb 5, 2011
    understood :hat
     
    Chempasillo, May 22, 2012
    Chempasillo, May 22, 2012
    #37
  8. devon

    devon Guest

    He lost to fullmer twice
    Lamotta is a bum with chin
    Ill give you Armstrong
    Gavilan only beat one good fighter
    Ill give you Angott
    Zivic lost his title in his first defense
     
    devon, May 22, 2012
    devon, May 22, 2012
    #38
  9. devon

    devon Guest

    I like this.
     
    devon, May 22, 2012
    devon, May 22, 2012
    #39
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm all for trying to break down the skills of the best fighters ever, but it's a huge job, more difficult than ATG IMO. But the more the merrier.

    For skills, you need to have a cut off point, say post 1930 or something because of limited film. I'm kind of thinking about who would make a provisional list like this now.
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    #40
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Come on...

    Actually be beat ATG Henry Armstrong in his first defence.
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    McGrain, May 22, 2012
    #41
  12. bodyheadic

    bodyheadic Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 11, 2012
    That's how I always went about it. A list for accomplishments, and then a list for talent.
     
    bodyheadic, May 22, 2012
    bodyheadic, May 22, 2012
    #42
  13. bodyheadic

    bodyheadic Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 11, 2012
    So what? Fighters lose.
    Zivic beat Armstrong you nutjob.
     
    bodyheadic, May 22, 2012
    bodyheadic, May 22, 2012
    #43
  14. devon

    devon Guest

    oh your right still though beating one fighter doesn't make you an ATG if it did Ken Norton would be .
     
    devon, May 22, 2012
    devon, May 22, 2012
    #44
  15. devon

    devon Guest

    and Ken Norton beat Ali doesn't make him an ATG
     
    devon, May 22, 2012
    devon, May 22, 2012
    #45
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