ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

I'll revisit the Contreras fight again, you've given it some insight. I'm a dedicated signed up Khaosai fan, I know you're right on it with all the western boxers from Thailand going back to B.C.E so out of interest who'd you rate as no 1? Samart, Samson, Saensak...... Sorry silly question..........Mr. Borkhorser by any chance? Give us your top 5 if you've got time I'd be intersted cos I've got holes in my Thai western boxing knowledge.

Interesting insight into the weight of Khosai, I know first hand what demons they are at cutting weight. Do you reckon Khosai could of handled Kong if the weight was more even?

About the translation, no probs. Now I know what kind of stuff you're after I can give you more like that. Infact, on that clip it wasn't the commontator at the time of the fight it was a highlight commentator years later reminiscing. When I get time I'll sit down and watch it again to see if there are any other nuggets you may like.

Kalambay/Mccallum, there's a better V.2.0? I'll check it out!:happy

Agree with you anaylsis of thet MacCallum fight, that struck me to, the quality of his skills whilst seemigly always going back, brilliant.

About Samart's fights pre boxing, I'm not sure what's out there on the interenet maybe if I try some searches in Thai some stuff may pop up. I have a few DVDs here with me in London from Thailand that have loads of his fights some are sure to pre date his boxing, but I don't know how to load that stuff on to a computer!

By the way, you view of Samart gauging the pace and level of a fight well later in his career is spot on and can be applied to Somluck as well. I posted a fight some pages ago I saw live of Somluck fighting on the Kings BDay in 2001. He'd done no training previous to that fight, (been out partying) and dominated with pure experience and ring smarts and of course an abundance of natural talent, pot shotting, countering etc and making the experienced opposition look like an amatuer.:scaredas: But I think you see this alot with with experienced Thais at the end of their careers, remember Buakaw V Takayuki in the K1 Max finals 2004.

 

Hey Vic, thanks for the clips. :good

The first fight is at Raja the other two are at Lumpini. You can always tell cos Raja is always light and spacious and Lumpini is dark and claustrophobic with a lot more chicken wire. The refs also wear a different uniform. I always prefer Lumpini, you feel closer to the action. It feels more like a cockpit whereas Raja is more modern and open and you don’t get the cats and rats running through your legs like in Lumpini!! One other interesting thing that you guys may not know, in Thailand the strongest fighter on paper going into the fight is always in the red corner.

Interesting group of fights, the first one:

Pajonsuk Por Pramuk (Red) V Khunseuk Orkwanmueng (Blue)

Good show by Khunseuk doing a great job against Por Pramuk’s next international prodigy Pajonsuk. Although I’m not convinced he’s the next Buakaw, too small and fights too Thai, maybe once he’s finished on the Thai scene, who knows? One thing’s for sure we know he ain’t getting his rightful share of the dough!!! (By the way, we were talking about Rob from MT focus a few post ago, well he can be clearly seen seated cross legged in the corner on the ring apron taking photos in that Raja fight).

Here’ s Pajonsuk fighting recently in Italy against Karim Bennoui on the Yokkao Extreme 2012 show. The weight difference and lack of rounds became a factor IMO:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAxLEGieNg0&feature=relmfu[/ame]


The other two fights were:

Aik Mongkon Gaiyanghawdow (Red) 121lbs V Dtong Deang Sitjahdtoi (Blue) 123lbs

What a knee fest, the kind of exhausting technical fight foreigners dread and most can’t compete in. Aik gets 40,000 baht for this one and Dtong gets 20,000. (Remember the typical 50-50 split with your camp!)

And finally,

Saksuriya Gaiyanghawdow (Red) 120lbs V Pornmongkon K.T.Gym (Blue)

Saksuriya (from Nakon C, another southerner:good) totally outclassing his opponent. Check form about 6.35 on for a master class in technical timing!:shock: Sak gets 35,000B Porn 30,000B.

 

their was a big card at Raja. the fights were:


Kongsak Sitboonmee vs Petek Kiatyongyut
Pakon Barnpeeumruanpeetong vs Mongkolchai Petsuphapaan

Prajantchai Por Petnamthong vs Methi Kiatprathum
Pudpadnoi Muangsima Kengsiam vs Nor Sriphung

Dang Sor Ploenchit vs Petu-thong Or Kwanmuang

Pajonsuk Por Pramuk vs Khunsuklek Or Kwanmuang
Saeksan Or Kwanmuang vs Yodwicha Por Boonsit


results are here: Liverkick


it seems that youtube's Round Custom Channel just uploaded the same fights with English names.

 

Thanks Yaca, will check it out. :good

 

My top five international boxers from Thailand? :think

Interesting and tough. Any thought process would make the picks redundant, so I'll shoot from the hip stream of consciousness psycho babble style and say '**** how did I forget him' when you boys stab holes right through it ;-)

1. Venice Bus Station (;-)): how could it not be? Big wins over top contenders (Cabanela) warred it up in Mexico with ridiculous punchers (Guerrero) outboxed master boxers (Salavarria) battered one of the toughest flyweights of all time in what all sources paint as one of the most violent beatings ever(Betulio) and unfairly denied a crown in a second weight class at bantam (no super fly in those days) against a great Bantamweight (Herrera)

A tough man, a capable southpaw boxer puncher and a physical beast at either weight who could jab, counter punch, or just batter his man, all with freakishly heavy hands that physically harmed his opponent and turned their faces (and to Gonzalez, who suffered lacerations to his chest and stomach) bodies. Consensus no.1 at Flyweight.

2. Pone Kingpetch: Thought in an insane Flyweight era. Struggling with weight for most of his career and with no punch to save him, Pone got by on a bit of range and awkwardness and sheer heart. A capable jabber, Kingpetch could be walked down, but his ability to work inside was terrfic, and he sneakily worked in his hurtful right uppercut at every opportunity. Almost using a half clinch at times His movement was not all that refined, but he knew how to navigate the ring. Sadly for him, so did the monsters he was in with. Fighting Harada and Hiroyuki Ebihara are two the greatest Asian boxers in history. Ebihara, a dangerous southpaw boxer-puncher, Harada a multi-faceted whirlwind who could box as well a he swarmed and had the stocky physical presence (should have been the man all the way to feather of Willie Pep hadn't have played to the crowd in Oz) to deal with Pone where Pascual Perez, a 4'11 ball of slick awkwardness and ferocity, couldn't.

The first is close but footage shows all calls of robbery were unfounded. Pone cut Perez up badly in the rematch, solidifying his claim as the best fly in the world. Perez, a bit past his best, was still a top class operator, and, IMO, one of the top five greatest flys of all time. Can't take that away from Pone.

Harada put on one of the great filmed performances (think Sumbu-McCallum I: the Tazmanian Devil version turned up to 11) and Ebihara starched Pone early doors, but he had reclaimed the title from Harada in the interim. Pushing a tired Harada down the stretch and, IMO unfairly, won the decision. King Bhumibol had stressed to Pone that he needed to perform against Harada and Pone did, winning his share of rounds despite suffering a similar beating early on.

Ebihara, again, contentious. But the Jap' thought Pone one and while I didn't, again, Pone gave a good account of himself against a man who had his number. Pone also got the better of a series with top light fly (in size, no division in those days) Kunoi. I'm looking into that more though ;-)

 

3. Veeraphol Sahaprom: This well-schooled Thai has progression on his side. He beat fellow Thai great Daorung Chuvatana (also well-schooled boxer puncher, a bit like a bigger Sasakul) within four fights to claim a version of the World title :yikes Losing by early K.O in a terrific shootout with the brilliant Nana Konadu, Sahaprom re-shaped his style, moulding himself into a mid-range ring general who could use a lead right hand almost as a jab. Very accurate when he got going.

I might be too retrospective here, but in hindsight the wins over Nishioka (2-1-1 Sahaprom IMO, including a near punch perfect whitewash fourth time around) and Choi Tseveenpurev looked better now, although like Khaosai, Sahaprom was never the consensus no.1 in his division so his titles and defences are largely redundant. However he was a very consistent fighter with a few good contenders on there until he ran into Hasegawa, who was maturing into a classic Kamikaze Jap' fighter! Like Harada on a lesser level (and southpaw) Hozumi was honing his craft to the point of being a sharpshooter who would swarm when he smelled blood. Well into his 30s, this was too much for a battle hardened, and now weary, Sahaprom. Walked through Hell first time but the Japanese was too fresh, walked onto a peach in the rematch and laid out.

4. Khaosai Galaxy: Already said. Some very good contenders on there. Also some blown up flys and shot fighters (Kim, still big but no longer with size advantage he had at fly, Orono, past sell-by date) but some good contenders/titlist as well (Pical, Contreras, Kongtoranee) but the Yong Kim fight is one of his best scalps as the Korean should've still been lineal champ at Fly (got better of Chitalada both times IMO)

Sahaprom, Galaxy, and the few contenders for the no.5 spot are pretty much longtime WBC champs whilst rarely being the consensus no.1. Sahaprom was arguably better than Austin, who Rafa Marquez beat to prove he was the man but also had the backing of Te Ring, an American publication, which Veeraphol did not.

It's between Sansaek Muangsurin, who pretty much was the no.1 light welter for a bit. Cervantes lost to Benitez, El Radar moved up. Cervantes was gifted the WBA back. Muangsurin was arguably the bed guy for a short time. What he has going for him:

-Still holds record for quickest time to a 'world title'. Hollow title but his quick progression has to be applauded. Top quality journeyman on a good run inside a round on his debut (Barro) top contender, never stopped, been 15 rounds with champ' Cervantes less than year before (Furuyama) wins title, loses it to DQ wins it back, defends it a few times. Euro-level competition, that meant more back in the day but still. Some dangerous contenders on there, Monroe Brooks, ex-135lb champ Guts Ishimatsu, The Mad Bull Moreno, a few others. A solid career in not too long a timespan. Attributes: arguably greatest chin in Thai history. Arguably hardest hands in Thailand at the time. His punching power was immense, and his stamina unparalleled and there for all to see; never sat down even through 15 rounds of action.

Another contender, Ponsaklek Wonjongkam. The no.1 in his division for much of his reign. Top quality scalps/defences few and far between. Daisuke Naito probably the best (awkward *******) Koki Kameda not very good but a well-known name, Sosa, not all that but recognisable contender. There ain't all that much on there, but undeniably class and at the top, at some level, for years.

And then, there's Sot Chitalada. He may have lost his lineal crown to the Korean and faile to regain it, but Kim then left the division to get destroyed by Lhaosai. Soy pretty much picked up where he left off.

Owned the tough former champ' Magri, run close in tight series with hard-punching contender Bernal, IMO lost to Chang right at the death, but gets kudos for fighting as he did (spiteful Ali influenced boxer-puncher) whilst being horrifically weight drained for years. Had some lethargic performances because of it, but supposedly he could kill himself to strip 18 or so lbs, but the last one or so would require him to be offer on and off the scales :-( Cost him when he came up against an even more faded Chang (well didn't, but in terms of aesthetic ebb and flow it did) and against fellow Thai, and scary banger, Muangchai Kittikasem.

Any of those guys could be there.

Most talented: Samart. Hard worker who deserves a shout out for some quality performances against the best? Khaokor Galaxy, far more talented than his brother and without the big punch. Completely schooled both Sung-Kil Moon (better single win than Khaosai has) and Wilfredo Vasquez Sr (I'll give Khaosai's Contreras over that ;-)) but, for reasons I still haven't pinned down, vanished into thin air Galway through the first round against Espinosa and retired.

If he'd beaten Espinosa, then Contreras, or moved up and beaten Daniel Zaragoza, Khaokor could be top 3. As it is, he's in the lower half of the top ten with Netrnoi and Chuvatana, and Samarn Sojoratung (hate spelling that one )

Phew.

Right.

Who have I missed? :hey

 

I TELL YOU WHO I'VE MISSED atsch

My new no.3 (push everyone else back one) Chartchai Chionoi. Whilst I can only give him credit for pushing Walter McGowan he did cut him enough to force the victories. That much is true.

Fought ****ing everyone. Has a win over Kingpetch conquerer Burruni, although the small footage I have of it paints a close contest. Chionoi wasn't particularly skilled and could be hurt, but he could grit his teeth and did have a bit of a dig on him. His first win over Efren Torres, in a war, demonstrates incredible powers of recovery, toughness and bouncebackability. Like Kingpetch, in a ridiculous era, and fell in other big tests like Ohba, Salavarria and Hanagata (past his best)

Chionoi mixed it up with all sorts, and has some quality scalps because of it. His style has caused him to struggle in lager life which is sad.

Also notable for having NO MUAY THAI BACKGROUND :deal

 

You noticed as I did ;-) The interviews I have of him he stresses he didn't like Muay Thai and just took up boxing training :good

Nice avatar=Mr Blue :good

 

That was all on memory so please point out anything I've missed on first go and anything I've got wrong chaps :thumbsup

 

Hey! There ain't many who are pure Queensbury ;-)

That's something I'll still trying to figure out with Pone. I've read contradictory (Western) reports :think His outside game (at times, and maybe just because he's trying not to get annihilated ) suggests not (the Muay Thai is apparent in even pure boxers from Thailand, they still come forward even if they are more conscious of what they are doing, Pone did use his legs more) but his inside game suggests he was schooled as a Nak Muay previously IMO.

BTW, recently uploaded a Pone fight. Did you see it on YouTube?