Carl Froch has lost 3 of his last 6 fights he is no GREAT

Listen you thick ****, I understood what you wrote. I was laughing at the notion that some people (obviously not you) think that Hopkins dominated Calzaghe.

I was agreeing with you, you idiot. I think you were the one who misunderstood. :bart

 

They had to fight where it made economic sense so neutral territory wouldn't work too well.

I just watched it again. The Brit version. They had Froch losing by one point and they were being 'interesting' on there scoring. Never did give definitive scores just said at the end that Kessler probably nicked it by taking the last round. It was really funny the way they weasled with approximate scores until the end. They had Froch needing to take every round from 9 on to win the fight. They were pure comic relief in their nut huggary. They did the first round even so 116 would be fair even by their account because you know a judge isn't going to give it even.

I'm talking about the both corners reactions immediately following the closing bell. Just saw it again less than an hour ago. Nobody in Froch's corner even looked like they were trying to be positive that the decision would go their way. I don't think it was because they were in Denmark. I think they honestly knew they lost.

Kessler did a lot of body work that he didn't seem to get credit for early but it took something from Froch. To be honest most exchanges were both guys missing A LOT. Kessler needs to get back to his more measured, accurate pace.

 

All right, calm down. No need for insults. Just a bit of a communication breakdown. :good

 

Bute and Johnson were both ranked at SMW when Froch beat them and in fact they still are. Bute was ranked as no 2, just below Ward. Beating ranked contenders at your own weight is always an accomplishment, especially when they are ranked above you. He DID beat Dirrell, even if it could have gone either way. And he beat Abraham, Taylor and Pascal - all highly ranked contenders/champions. Don't rewrite history just because some fighters have fallen from grace on the time since :nono

 

Froch threw a blatant elbow at Bute within the first minute right before the ref stepped in and he hits behind the head consistently on a clinch, not to mention other 'opportunities' as they arise. It's part of who he is, half caveman (not meant to be derogatory). It comes with the territory.

 

My scorecard;

Round 1 10-9 Froch
Round 2 10-9 Froch
Round 3 10-9 Kessler
Round 4 10-9 Kessler
Round 5 10-9 Froch
Round 6 10-9 Froch
Round 7 10-9 Kessler
Round 8 10-9 Kessler
Round 9 10-9 Froch
Round 10 10-9 Froch
Round 11 10-10
Round 12 10-10

Rounds 11 & 12 were terribly close, and if I had to pick a winner of them I would have favored Froch in 11 and Kessler in 12. However I felt those two rounds were so closely contested, it wouldn't have been fair to either fighter to pick a winner of them.

And btw, in the 100 + fights I have scored rounds 11 and 12 of this fight were only the 2nd and 3rd time I've ever given out even rounds. So I don't do it very often, as I can usually judge a even slight winner of even the closest round. That's how close I felt those 2 rounds were. All I know for sure is, I felt Froch won as close as the fight was I could even see a draw, given that you have to take the title from the champion and as close as it was Kessler certainly didn't do enough to do that. Plus if all the scoring criteria have been met and you still have the round even, the close rounds (as a rule of thumb) are suppose to be found in favor of the champion. As the challenger has to do enough to prove he was good enough to take a title from a sitting champion.

 

I think they knew when the final bell rang and no KO occurred in their fighters favor, they knew right then and their the were not going to get the decision, even if Froch would have won 8 rounds. I believe they knew they needed a KO to walk out of Denmark with the championship. They knew it, and even if not a reality yet (before the scorecards were read) believed it to be true. Hince the dejection. Honestly neither of our varying arguments are not farfetched at all. Either explanation could be correct, but I would be willing to wager if Froch or his cornermen were ever asked the question, 100 times out of 100 they would answer with what I feel to be true.

 

Barry McGuigan got in :deal

If he beats Kessler next I think he's a cast iron certainty to get it.

Its good to see he's finally getting the recognition he deserves in England too!

 

Indeed.

I have always felt that Dirrell lost that fight due to the dramatic antics he commenced after the first few rounds. Constant complaining, flopping to the floor for no reason whatsoever other than to avoid fighting, not even a Haye type device to stay out of clinches.

Unfortunately for Dirrell and his fans, competent judges WILL take note of **** like that. That WIILL swing rounds against a fighter, even if they've landed three or four more punches over the course of a round. They're not being effective, they look like the pressure is too much for them, as though they're seeking a way out.

Dirrell COULD have won that fight, it was very close and he clearly had the skills to have defeated Froch. Unfortunately, he didn't have the mental fortitude and that's as important as anything.

Good decision rendered by the judges.

 

No. A judge is not allowed to take that into consideration. They must score each round on its own merit and nothing more. A good judge does not give any favor like that. They also seem reluctant to score a round even for some reason.

I do much better scoring fights at small local venues where I can be close to the action. I guess that shouldn't be surprising. It is one reason that I don't give judges too much grief. They are truly seeing a different fight. But what I saw just a little while ago was Kessler doing body work throughout the fight that took some of the wind out of Froch. The later rounds Froch was doing more work but a lot of the pop and precision was gone. Well, both guys to some extent, but Froch more so. I think the 'old Kessler' would have been more patient and landing better at the end.

 

Are you saying with what he has done in the last 4 + plus years he shouldn't receive any praise?:think

He was a big underdog last night, and mopped the floor with what most people felt was the number 2 (hell a decent size contingent felt he was the #1) fighter in the SMW division. It was a big win homie, and if you couple that with fighting nothing but the divisions elite for almost 5 straight years without a break, I believe he deserves all the appreciation he is receiving. :happy

 

Taylor - former unidisputed MW champ
Pascal - went on to become #1 LHW
Abraham - former longstanding MW champ
Johnson - former LHW champ
Bute - current, unbeaten SMW champ (southpaw)
Magee - Top ten SMW, gone on to claim a paper strap
Reid - former SMW champ

One very close loss to a former longstanding SMW champ and another loss to Gold medallist, unified #1 SMW

Phenomenal.

 

I know that homie :good by saying "as a rule of thumb" I should of clarified I meant as a unwritten rule of sorts. The tie always goes to the champion, which is why they say you have to take the title from a seated champion. Meaning (imo) if it's neck and neck throughout the nod goes the champs way, not the hometown-boy.

 

I also just re-watched and scored the fight today, the 116-114 scorecard I gave was from today. My original scorecard was 116-113 in favor of Froch.

 

All judges, 95% of all journalist ringside, about 90% in the big poll on ESB right after the fight, ... even the English TV commentators! all had Kessler winning the fight.

In reality he won a clear but close fight Carl simply did not throw enough.

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In regards to Dirrell it is a closer fight. Dirrell won the clearer rounds, but in several rounds he just ran and held. So in a 10 points must system Froch won. But because Dirrell has the strongest rounds (some of the later rounds) it is understandable if people had the feeling Dirrell did better.