Prime Muhammed Ali vs Prime Jim jeffries

James achieved greatness beyond doubt as he cleaned up his white challengers and fought the biggest names.

Unfortunately for him, those biggest names would not be heavyweights today and he's wholly unproven against real heavyweight opposition.

 

People are really dismissing that Jeffries was a bear of a man with herculean strength and a comfortable coat of body hair. He ran the hundred yard dash in 14 seconds and highjumped four foot six, both records that would have stood until the early 1960's. He was known to dunk on an 8 foot basket. His extended left with his crouch made him a highly mobile and dynamic force. Furthermore, he withstood the brutal attack of the man mountain known as Tom Sharkey. I pick Jeff to muster Ali to ropes around the 14th and land a bodyblow the likes Foreman was unable to, and end the affair. Bad matchup for Ali.

 

You forgot the bull moose, and the 20 mile run.

 

Jeffries is not a mutant and cannot take unlimited punishment. he would barely touch ali, who could take a **** of a great shot. frankly he's taken them from much better punchers thans jeffries. there's no reason to doubt ali's stamina

over 15, ali wins UD
over 20, ali by TKO on cuts

 

and the badger, and the mountain lion, and the horse he out-ran afer he shot it in the face. How many animals did Ali face aside from Joe Frazier? Jeffries gets the nod here.

 

100 yard dash in 14 seconds? First of all metres is a much better measurement and even if it was, that's still pretty damn slow bro, I'm pretty sure well over a handful of school mates could run quicker in year 8 (13 years old) whilst doing the 100 'metres' and to say it that record would stand till the 1960s? Your mad. Not only would 14 seconds not be a record in the day of Jeffries it would be at least 3 seconds, most probably more from it. Four foot six in the high jump is about 135 CM again the same applies to the 100 metres. Plenty of my mates could have surpassed this at around 13/14. Unless you've got the wrong time and distance for the high jump then your a delusional mother ****er Seamus

 

Its called humour,or what passes for it.

 

Fair enough. Just a couple of questions .
How many lightning fast, six foot three heavyweights , great boxers with top chins,who scaled 212/220lbs , and were in their prime did Jeffries face ?

Hiow many heavyweights over 200lbs did Jeffries beat ?

I'm thinking of guys of this stamp.

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I think you will produce a list with no names on it.

 

McVey can have a slanted view against white heavyweights who fought at the same time Johnson did, unless they defeated him as Choynski, Hart, and Willard did or gave him a hard time in the ring

Fitzsimmons ( who was younger than 40 for the 2nd fight ) was an excellent fighter, and lethal puncher, capable of flooring much larger ranked contenders for 10 counts. In three 3 cases producing fatalities. No less authority than Nat F.rated Fitzsiommons the #1 knockout puncher of all time, ahead of Dempsey and Louis. It is speculated that Fitzsimmions, who was beaten relatively easily in the first match by Jeffries, cheated in the re-match by tampering with his gloves. Indeed, when Jeffries wanted to see the gloves, because “ Fitz didn’t mark him up in the first match “ Fitzsimons quickly tossed the gloved into the crowd.

I ask the objective minded posters a question. What’s worse, taking heavy shots from Fitzsimmons, or nearly being KO’d by Henry Cooper, or floored by Sonny Banks? The answer is easy, but the king of double standards won’t offer such information in his posts. If not for the smelling salts that turned Ali’s eyes into pinballs ( Smelling salts were illegal for the match in British boxing ), and perhaps some extra time, a young Clay might have a TKO loss to Henry Cooper. Its hard to say.

So who wins here? Ali had trouble with forward moving pressure fighters, losing to Frazier when Frazier was closest to his prime, and allowing much slower fighters such as Chavalo and Bonevenna to have their share of moments. Jeffries was bigger, stronger, and faster, and more athletic than Bonevenna or Chavalo. Ali also had a tendency to get caught by the hook, which was Jeffries best punch. Jeffries would certainly be competitive here, and perhaps win but much depends on the ring size, rules, and scheduled rounds.

Modern rules, 12 rounds, I would pick Ali ( 65-67 version ) via decision.

Old time rules, of 15+ or more rounds, I would pick Jeffries via TKO/KO.

For what it’s worth Murry Woroner once had a computer tournament where matches were picked based on statistics and data in the 1960's. The results were broadcast via Radio. I have the results, but never heard the broadcast. In the tournament, Jeffries defeated Ali.

 

Fitzsimmons was 39 years, and 2 months old, he had been out of the ring, in retirement for 2 years.Fitz was conceding 47 lbs to Jeffries , who was 13 years younger.
Jeffries walked over and examined Fitz's hands in the ring, just prior to the 1st bell, Fitz tossed his gloves into the crowd after declaring it was his last fight. I posted this from a ringside account some time ago.

Jeffries was marked up in their first fight he had a badly cut eye, and the blood ran down his face throughout the fight.

Here is a ringside account of the 1st fight. Jeffris won because he took alicking and kept on ticking, it was his trade mark.The account says Fitz hit him when he wanted to but couldn't dent him.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...IBAJ&pg=5946,5735042&dq=bob+fitzsimmons&hl=en

Fitz was pissed the night before the fight William Muldoon had to half carry him home. It is onrecord.


The only thing in Fitz's gloves was Fitz. Who are the three men you say Fitz killed? Lets examine some of your statements, concerning Fitzsiommons/Fitzsomions or whatever you call him, and Chavalo, and Bonavenna, your spellings. This proposed match is PRIME FOR PRIME
Ali was not prime for Cooper in their first match, the time delay for a search for another pair of gloves was absolutely negligible as has been proven over, and over again.

Neither was Ali prime for Sonny Banks .


Ali had no trouble with Chuvalo ,[correct spelling,] at all, he won a U DEC.Ali was not prime for Bonavena[correct spelling], he was rusty ,with less than 20 rds of boxing in nearly 4 years under his belt.


Ali fought tons of pressure fighters many of them bigger and harder hitting than Jeffries,only ONE ever beat him, and he did it once out of 3 times, against an Ali who had less than 20rds of boxing in nearly 4 years. Jeffries on the other hand ,NEVER faced a real heavyweight who could box and move.

Jeffries never faced a heavyweight who had the speed of Ali, the nearest to it was a 33 years old Corbett, who had been retired for 2 years, had 3 fights in 6 years and not won any of them. Corbett also at 188lbs was 24 lbs lighter than Ali, 30lbs lighter than Jeffries, and had a 9 inch reach disadvantage to Ali.

Jeffries never beat a man of any quality as big as himself , and certainly not one with the boxing skills and allround ability of Ali.
Jeffries reputation is based on beating two puffed up lightheavyweights ,who were coming out of 2 years retirement in both cases , men who were past their best,and 2 life and death battles with a face first brawler , with zero defence who stood 5 foot 9 inches tall.

Bonavena was 205lbs for the Ali fight, that is heavier than any man Jeffries ever beat.

After 23 rds Corbett was in front against Jeffries,so,why would Jeffries stop a bigger, faster harder hitting, more durable version of Corbett in Ali ,when he couldnt stop Corbett in 22 rds?

Chuvalo at 222lbs ,and 216 lbs compares favourably in size and durability to Jeffries, and his chin was proven against big heavyweights , Jeffries' never was.

Woroner's computer had Max Baer out pointing Jack Johnson, what is it worth? JACK ****.

 

I doubt he would have destroyed him ... Ali was no puncher and if Jeffries had anything it was a chin ... Ali likely wins a Chuvalo 1 type decision ...

 

George Chuvalo gave Ali a pretty good work out, From what I hear of a prime Jeffries he was faster and hit harder than Chuvalo and was just as durable. Hard to really say but I think the strength of Jeffires makes the fight competitive but Ali takes the UD