Better Top 5 Wins at SMW: Froch or Calzaghe?

I will when you stop using the term 'SMW' to qualify your statements. Equivalant of claiming that sugar ray leonard would have been **** at SMW since he did next to nothing at that weight. stupid and totally failed argument.


Dirrel hasnt won a title, no. Veit briefly did when noone else wanted a SMW title. Dirrell would have pasted Veit and taken his title back if they had been contemparies.

Braehmer, who the hell is that? Another Jeff 'dreadful' Lacey for you to dredge up.

 

in your opinion, so that doesnt bother me at all its a complement to hear you think I am thick, in fact.

because thats your self-validating opinion, suprise suprise. You sound like you are trying to proove that God exists with your self-validation.

 

So you are struggling to answer and now suffering a terrible schooling.

The term SMW is very relevant as some fighters are not very good in certain weight divisions.
Consider G Johnson who you rate as a win for Froch is a world class LHW, but look at him at SMW and it is dreadful

Just a note on G Johnsons SMW career -
In 14 SMW fights Johnson has lost 8 of them.
Johnson has lost at SMW to -

M Sosa who had 5 losses and 2 draws, and lost his next 2 fights after beating Johnson
Kiwanuka who had 3 losses and 2 draws, had lost his last 2 fights coming into his fight with Johnson and his fight after Johnson
Ottke 16-0 who in fairness was an outstanding SMW boxer
Vanderpool 27-1 who lost his next fight, but in fairness that was at MW to Hopkins and Vanderpool had a good run after
Branco 38-4-2 who was a world class SMW and became WBA LHW champ
Sheika who was 19-1 and lost his next fight, though in fairness that was to Calzaghe.
Froch
Bute

The SMWs that Johnson has managed to beat
Campas 3-20-4 coming off of only 2 losses and won his next fight
Watson 24-16-1, Johnson was his last fight
Renteria 9-23-5 coming in, whos last 10 fight record before facing Johnson was 0-8-2
Zimmerman 15-2-0 coming in, who had lost his previous fight and the one after
A Green 29-2-0 coming in and Johnsons biggest SMW victory

Its not impressive now is it. Please spare me the robbery talk.
If any rated SMW losses to Johnson it wont look good on their resume

Johnson was something like 0-5 in world title fights at LHW entering the Froch fight as well as about 15 losses.


The fact that you do not know who all of these fighters are makes you look silly when you try and comment as you dont know who they are to comment on.
Braehmer was a WBO LHW champ who never lost his title and had a better resume than Dirrell at SMW.

I dont think Dirrell would beat Veit. Veit was a 6 ft 4 strong fighter and Dirrell hasnt beaten anyone of that note, whilst Veit has beaten fighters as accomplished as Dirrell

 

So for something so flawed you still couldnt find any holes.
You are very easy to school, but I think that could come down to a guess that you didnt know the division before Calzaghe beat Lacy?

 

Just looking at thover quality of the fighters in each list makes this comparsion close. When taking into account Froch beat Johnson, Abraham and Pascual away from hlme makes his list more impressive. Had joe taken more risks he might have had a better resume tjan Froch. I c joe losing if he had fought the type of competition Froch fought.

 

You really dont know the division at all.
Pascal was at home for Froch.
Calzaghe beat a far more accomplished SMW in Veit away from home in Germany, who did more at SMW than Dirrell, Abraham, Pascal, Johnson.


Just a note on G Johnsons SMW career -
In 14 SMW fights Johnson has lost 8 of them.
Johnson has lost at SMW to -

M Sosa who had 5 losses and 2 draws, and lost his next 2 fights after beating Johnson
Kiwanuka who had 3 losses and 2 draws, had lost his last 2 fights coming into his fight with Johnson and his fight after Johnson
Ottke 16-0 who in fairness was an outstanding SMW boxer
Vanderpool 27-1 who lost his next fight, but in fairness that was at MW to Hopkins and Vanderpool had a good run after
Branco 38-4-2 who was a world class SMW and became WBA LHW champ
Sheika who was 19-1 and lost his next fight, though in fairness that was to Calzaghe.
Froch
Bute

The SMWs that Johnson has managed to beat
Campas 3-20-4 coming off of only 2 losses and won his next fight
Watson 24-16-1, Johnson was his last fight
Renteria 9-23-5 coming in, whos last 10 fight record before facing Johnson was 0-8-2
Zimmerman 15-2-0 coming in, who had lost his previous fight and the one after
A Green 29-2-0 coming in and Johnsons biggest SMW victory

Its not impressive now is it. Please spare me the robbery talk.
If any rated SMW losses to Johnson it wont look good on their resume

At SMW Kessler, Lacy, Eubank, Reid and Mitchell all have far better SMW resumes than any of the fighters listed for Froch and had all been world champs at the weight and proven.

- Mikkel Kessler - WBA/WBC champ on a winning run of 5 SMW world title fights
- Jeff Lacy - IBF champ and on a winning run of 5 SMW world title fights
- Chris Eubank - was 13-2-2 in SMW world title fights and with a very good resume
- Robin Reid - former WBC champ who looked unlucky years later against Ottke and beat undefeated B Magee now WBA INT champ
- Byron Mitchell - former 2 time WBA SMW champ


Very clearly Calzaghe


Just look at B Mitchell alone
2 time WBA SMW champ
He beat
- #1 Liles linear champ (something Ward is praised for doing) by KO. Liles was on a winning run of 8 world title fights with a win over M Nunn
- drew with future 2 weight champ Girard
- beat Siaca twice who went on to become WBA SMW champ who beat Mundine
- beat former MW champ JC Green who beat a prime Joppy before Joppy was beaten by Trinidad or Hopkins.

Mitchell only lost a debateable SD to Ottke and was only ever beaten
clearly once as a SMW by Calzaghe.

Then Calzaghe had a very good wins over Woodhall and Veit and beat Brewer who were all SMW champs and world rated. Woodhall also has a better SMW resume than the fighters listed for Froch above and Veit arguably does also.
Then you can throw in all of the top 10 rated SMWs in Bika, Starie, Manfredo, Mkertchyan, Sheika. Thats not including Calzaghes LHW victories


Tell me how its close

 

Froch to be honest, im baffled why you did not include Calzaghe's victory over Omar Shieka considering Johnson places 2nd on Froch's list?

 

My mistake its late I know the pascal fight was in the uk.

Baily you make up your rules as you go. You ignore accomplishments outside SMW for some fighters and uses them to make other fighters look good. That makes it seem like you have an agenda when someone is as inconsistent as you have been. I am surprised to learn this.

 

Hasn't anyone called Baileys flawed logic yet? He gauges fighters by what they have done at a particular weight and turns the blind eye towards everything else.

Take these examples of Bailey reasoning:

Joey Maxims win over Ray Robinson is trash since Robinson has no wins at LHW.
Aaron Pryors wins over Alexis Arguello are ****. Arguello did **** all at LWW.
Evander Holyfields wins over Dwight Qawi is garbage because Qawis record at CW is garbage.

And on and on and on. :yikes

 

Missed this post sorry.

You'll enjoy my above post I'm sure.

 

Well, with the addition of Bute to Froch's resume, an argument can be made either way, in terms of quality. The biggest difference to me is that Froch managed his in 4 years, which is pretty impressive.

 

Its funny how much hate Calz gets on here. I never considered myself a fan but its the hate he gets that makes me root for him more and more ala with Lebron too.

Yeah he fought mediocre opposition but he had a 20 fight title run of course he's gonna have a few gimmies along the way. Still doesn't change the fact that he beat SMW fellow champs and guys top 10 in the ranking and arguably has a win over Hopkins(could've went either way) but beat a better Kessler who later beat Froch(another fight that could've went either way).

And unlike Froch, Calz beat the best guys he fought(Hops and Kessler) which are still better wins than what Froch has. Hell, even Lacy is better than most those names on Froch's list at least he was proven at the weight unlike Taylor, Abraham, and the fragile Dirrell. Beating Bute was great but again not better than beating a prime Kessler and aren't we forgetting that the best guy he faced he lost against in Ward?

I wish Froch well aswell as Ward but its funny to see how much people are willing to overrate them just to try to have them over Calzaghe. 46-o. 20 fight title run at SMW. Most accomplished at SMW. Deal with it.

 

The Cobra all the way!

 

IMO there is no doubt that Joe is GOAT SMW just based on longevity, but when you talk about TOP 5 victories, there can be some arguments. Bute and Dirrell are very good victories, we just dont know what Dirrell will achive in future. Pascal also.
And Hopkins win was at LHW, so it doesnt count.