Better Top 5 Wins at SMW: Froch or Calzaghe?

atsch

So he doesn't get it.

I'll give him this: His boxrec handling skills is top notch. The rest: Not so much.

 

General Zod cleaning up in town again ...

 

Why? Lufcrazy equals Calzaghes win over Kessler with Frochs loss against him. Regardless what anyone think off Calzaghe, Bailey and ESB-debates it's a mumbo jumbo point of view. Calzaghe clearly outboxed Kessler. Froch had a close fight with him, and Kessler at that point was on the decline. Still a very good fighter, but not at his best.

 

Thanks:good

 

Right, so the arguments of what these fighters have achieved at SMW stands in the case of these examples. Bailey pointed out that these fighters achieved very little at SMW, you agree that none are particularly good wins.

We're talking about Calzaghe and Froch, not Kessler.

So you agree that Glen Johnson is not the same fighter at SMW that he was at LHW. The example stands.

So at MW, Taylor was able to defeat Bernard Hopkins twice, at SMW he got brutally knocked out by Carl Froch and Arthur Abraham in consecutive fights, then went on a 3 year hiatus, before returning...as a MW. It's clear that Jermain Taylor is not effective at SMW, and was not nearly the fighter he was when he beat Hopkins.

Right, so was Collazo better than Tszyu? Ignore Collazo and Tszyu, do you really think Hatton was as effective at WW, as he was when he became the lineal JWW champion?

Right, so you agree that Khan wasn't the same fighter at 135, as he is at 140.

So clearly Pascal wasn't comfortable or natural at 168?

 

No, it doesn't.
What top level fighters did Abraham beat at mw?
The answer is none. Yes he racked up title defences, but he wasn't fighting anyone worth mentioning. He only started to do that at smw. He is losing fights because he is not very good, not because he put on 8 lbs.

Your post I believe

????????
Think about what I typed before.

Hopkins is a defensive minded counterpuncher with a low workrate. Pavlik and Froch are big punchers with a high workrates. It's the styles that made the difference, not the weight.

He was better than the semi-active version Hatton faced. It should also be pointed out that that fight against Kosta could of gone very differently with a unbiased referee.
Hatton struggled at ww because he was facing a better level of opponent , not because he put on 7lbs. For the record it was healthier for him to fight at ww instead of lww.

This is another bad example. You are using cases of fighters moving down to fight at unhealthy weights to support your arguments.

That's not what I said. Your natural weight class is the lowest weight class you can fight at effectively. Just because a fighter doesnt like boiling himself down doesn't automatically mean he cannot be effective in that weight class. Pacquiao is a good example of this.

 

How would you compare the win over Abraham to e.g. Calzaghe's win over Sheika?

yes, I was comparing Froch to Calzaghe atsch

Regardless of excuses, Johnson isn't the same fighter at SMW, that he was at LHW

Ignore styles, Taylor clearly wasn't the same fighter. Do you really think the Taylor who beat Hopkins would have got stopped in brutal fashion by Froch and Abraham in consecutive fights?

Hatton seemed to disagree, he went back down to LWW and stated no-one can beat me at this weight. He clearly felt more confident fighting at this weight.

Those examples are fine, their examples of fighters not being the same at different weight classes, which is the point Bailey made.

 

I agree Zod is a very good and fair poster.(when he isn't stuck in the Phantom Zone, or trying to take over the planet)

 

They are both fringe contender level wins, b-

You only mentioned that as a way of taking a dig at Froch's resume.

For the last time I dont class this as a top win so I cannot understand why you keep refering to it. For the record Im going to ignore all your posts about Taylor and Johnson from now on.

How on earth can you ignore styles, the very thing which determines the outcome of most fights?
You clearly haven't seen the Taylor-Hopkins fights either.

Until he faced a guy called Pacquaio. Hatton also would of picked up a couple of losses at that weight if he hadn't 'missed' guys like Torres, Cotto and Witter

Moving up is very different to moving down.

 

Excellent points by KO Artist and completely owned the discussion.
G Zod will start by making his own special gradings for fighters next, which he has done before, rather than view what they have achieved.

 

It's pronounced Failey.

 

I repeat for the ducker, that you have to look at where a fighter is in his career and whether he can perform at another weight.
You compare Mayweather to G Johnson, A Abraham and J Taylor which is ridiculous even by your standards, dont you think?
J Taylor was 1-2 in 3 fights and couldnt compete at SMW and since dropped back in weight
A Abraham was coming off a loss when faced with the first true SMW he had fought and said he was too small at SMW and wanting to go back to MW.
G Johnson hadnt been at SMW for years had lost his last 5 world title fights at the weight above and had lost more at SMW than won and had no notable wins.

Yet you compare that to Mayweather going up in weight to a division where he had won a world title before, and was coming off an impressive win resume

Can you work the difference out now?