The right style to beat a prime Wladimir Klitschko?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by fists of fury, Jun 5, 2012.


  1. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ...Similar to the Roy Jones thread.

    Wlad Klitschko, the current heavyweight champion, has proved something of a puzzle to many of his opponents. Very tall, powerful and mobile, Wlad has proved to be dominant over a group of mainly shorter opponents.

    They battle to get past the jab and cannot seem to find a way inside. If they do break through, they are most often tied up inside. Some opponents must feel like it's 'damned if you do, damned if you don't.'

    Once he has established his range, that long and powerful left proves to be a powerful weapon for him. He hooks off it nicely, and also pulls an opponent off balance with it from time to time.
    The right hand is sometimes used sparingly until the opponent is suitably gassed or demoralised, then he uncorks it and goes to work. He also has a good left hook, which he occasionally leads with. Wlad's hands are pretty quick for a big man.

    Wlad has very good mobility for a big man, and is not afraid to go into full-on retreat mode if an opponent moves in quickly on him. He moves straight back, often with his lead hand extended to keep his opponent from getting in. Sometimes he moves back and then anti-clockwise to the right, but always with the intention of maintaining distance, which he nearly always does.

    Flaws? Depends on what one perceives to be a flaw. An advancing opponent rarely has to worry about a counter from Wlad if he's retreating. He seems to willingly give ground and forego offense to keep the distance and reset.
    Body punches are a rarity from Wlad, but whether this is a flaw or not depends on one's point of view. He does not tend to give an oppponent much chance to counter, and standing his ground and throwing body shots may give an opponent just that chance.
    Tall men should fight tall, and Wlad does that.
    His chin is questionable...I don't think that's exactly a secret, and he has shown to get flustered somewhat if things don't go according to plan.

    Nonetheless, given his physical dimensions, hand speed, mobility, physical conditioning and overall skill, he has proven to be a very hard man to beat currently.

    Our heavyweight is based on the physical dimensions of David Haye, around 6'3", but he can be shorter if you want. I want a shorter opponent than Klitschko because we need to figure out how to deal with Wlad's height and mobility.
    Let's assume he has Wlad's handspeed and power. Other than that, our heavyweight is a blank canvas.
     
  2. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, our guy has Wlad's hand speed and power.
     
  3. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Not just chin but the ability not to be dissuaded.

    Going outside of the usual thinking, and because he's a smaller guy (so we might be able to say not him but this guy has similar attributes and is bigger) I'll go for Mike Weaver to absorb Wlad's shots and draw him into fatigue and catch him with a booming left hand as Wlad tries to finish him. You'll see, when Wlad is trying to open his man up for the finish, his right hand is probing the routes of entry. I could see someone more offensively gifted than the run of opposition he's had whilst in his prime more able to exploit some of the comforts and habits even a well-organised behemoth like Wlad can have. He also has history with big, long armed jabbers, though none the size of Wlad off the top of my head.

    Then again, Wlad might well pummel him for rounds and finish him without having to break a sweat, staying out of danger.

    If we're going on outpointing him, Ali would land his jab first, stop Klitschko getting into a rhythm and, judging by the off-balance and uncultured movement of David Haye, navigate Wlad's dangerous attributes with ease.

    But then, I didn't really wanna' go for an obvious answer.
     
  4. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Let's just say there's a convenient reason why Vitali fought Sosnowski, but not little brother. More Klitschko double-headed champion tomfoolery. :-(
     
  5. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's a bit difficult I know, because it's natural to take an asset of one fighter and then by extension think of that fighter as a whole.

    I was watching the Haye-Klitschko fight last night, and I feel that if Haye had actually tried to establish the jab and stick with it, he could have had greater success. He has quick hands, and reached Wlad with his jab when he used it.
    Instead he resorted to wild, poorly implemented lunges that made him look foolish and had very little impact.
    He'd also lunge in, throw a wild looping right hand and then stop in his tracks, instead of working his way inside and staying there, or attempting to. He'd close the distance and then just stop, allowing Wlad to re-establish that distance very easily.
    It was a wierd fight on Haye's part.
     
  6. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    One thing is, he must be busy. Wlad is a big guy with a lot of mass. Be mobile, quick on your feet and make him move a lot, make him hit air and overreach, put him out of balance. Punch the body, remember Brock had some success with bodyshots. Wlad din´t like them. As a result Wlad will tire in the second half and that´s where you would have to take advantage. Ali would be a great and obvious choice here. Also Walcott.
     
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    In fact I'd take the best versions of Dokes, Page, Thomas, 'Spoon and Weaver to give Wladimir way more hassle than the current crop have.

    I'd probably still take Wlad to win them all though. In the Heavyweight division nothing is certain, and a more capable fighter (IMO anyway) had hassle with a few of those guys. Question is whether it was his style that got him into those situations and whether Klitschko, with a few extra inches on Larry and far less eager to fight and with a tighter guard, would also get clobbered by that crowd.

    Because all evidence points to Holmes being more resilient when actually hit, although admittedly not a natural fighter I was always impressed by Wlad's attempts to get to his feet against Sanders, his equilibrium naturally gone. But it was not indictative of someone with great powers of recovery, and as he matured I don't think we've seen him hit enough. Peter's knockdowns were pretty much all fouls.

    In short, I'd favour quite a few contenders from previous era's to trouble him as much as they did the champions of their day, but I'm willing to give Wladimir the benefit of the doubt for the most part, and say most would take rounds off him instead of him completely dominating, and that he'd actually be in competitive fights, rather than flip it the complete other way and say '**** era, fake champion, would lose to everyone from the olden day's', that would be ludicrous. Olympic champion, consistency, physical gifts, solid but unspectacular application, two heavy hands with a genuine K.O blast from the left.

    Wladimir Klitschko is a very good Heavyweight.
     
  8. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, but Ali had that ridiculous speed. That's not fair. :D
    I'm struggling to see how Walcott's style would be effective against Wlad, to be honest.

    PS-Love the avatar. :lol:
     
  9. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Well Wlad and Mike would mutually stall on the inside. Ugly fight this, for the most part.

    Question is when they are broken and re-set (will happen often) can Wlad establish his jab? And will Wlad leaning on Mike tire him out? If Mike leaps in and doesn't find immediate success will Wlad be suited to causing him problems where Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker and Tyrell Biggs couldn't?

    I'll say the very best Mike blasts Klitschko early, but anything less and Wlad might take him into deep waters. Not positive enough that he puts the shots together enough to finish him maybe, but maybe dissuades Mike as the rounds go on and clings on to a win over 12. Would Wlad fight like Tucker though, go into a shell and allow Mike to take the initiative despite his physical gifts?
     
  10. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Okay, not Ali. Walcott would have to be very cautious and I think he would be able to do that. I´d love to say Tunney but I think he´s too small, stylewise he´d be a good one though for what I lined out.

    Or you take someone like Baer who could possible take Wlad´s punches, puts on pressure and has the power to knowck him out. I can envision Baer surving the early rounds and draining Wlad in the midrounds - similar too Brewster just with Baer beeing the reason and not fatigue.

    But IMO the best way to beat Wlad is to tire him out. Just going in and punch him out is much harder ´cause you will have first to walk through Wlad punches and then deal with him hugging you all night.

    Thanks, greatest artist to ever walk this planet. Epitome of manlyness.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anyone world class with a directly disruptive would likely get it done for me.
     
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good input Flea, thanks.

    Yes, I must admit Wlad is pretty good, but he has a natural reticence that infuriates me. That's besides the point though.

    Getting slightly off my own topic, I can't help notice how the dynamics of a fight changes when you have two equally big men in there. For instance, Vitali and Lewis fought slightly out of character in their tussle.
    Lewis was ducking punches, which he very rarely did, and Vitali was throwing 1-2's and seeking to clinch, which against the likes of Arreola he didn't do. He controlled Arreola with his jab, but struggled to do the same with Lewis simply because Lewis could reach him.

    It's funny, but I can't help but feel that Wlad has basically taken an amateur style and refined it for the pro ranks. It's pretty much the typical European style concentrating on straight punches with minimal body punching, with a few extra things thrown in to spice things up, like the hook.
    He has added to his game by concentrating heavily on the basics.
     
  13. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What do you mean by directly disruptive? I take it you mean in a styles sense?
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    One word.

    Finisher.
     
  15. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I guess he means someone who doesn´t let him get set in his rythm, who doesn´t let him build up a momentum and doesn´t let him dictate how the fight is fought.