Ali-Gift Decisions?

Haven't watched it.

 

Regarding the Ali / Norton 111 fight ,your statement would imply the two judges Lederman ,and Smith, and the referee, Mercante were either incompetent ,or crooked or both ,which is it?

Ali was terrible versus Young, and Young stunk the place out,there's a reason so many close decisions went against him imo, he did not have a winners mentality.
Young at 27 had the heavyweight championship within his grasp against a fat 34 years old champion who was not in shape, Young could not bring himself to go for it.

So he goes down for posterity as a nearly man ,with zero sympathy from me.

 

Quite right,John. Coopman was the greatest of all time. Ali was forced to fight him,and Frazier,Foreman and Norton ducked him

 

The only iffy decisions that went Ali's way,imo,were the Young fight and Norton III. I score the former as a draw and the latter a 9 - 6 victory for Norton. Ali deserved every other victory he was awarded.

I must say that,even by his own standards,Frankenfrank's views about the Chuvalo fights are eccentric,to say the least. "He should have gone to Specsavers"

 

Fair enough , neither did I , yet .
So should i have taken it that u agree/d with d judges in Ramirez vs Arguello ?

 

Why would you assume so?

 

I scored Saturday's fight for Pacquiao. Manny should quit though.

 

Well ?

 

4d guests / new users reading this thread , take in2 consideration that about 80% of Stevie G's post count , and i m trying 2b conservative with my speculation here , r Ali related . Is he a real poster who lacks agenda / foul motives and comes here 2 learn ? at least i don't think so .

 

I make no secret of bein an Ali fan but i would never ever be blinded or blinkered. I try to be as open and reasonable with every fight and fighter i watch otherwise id only be lying to myself.

In my opinion, and mine only, a gift is when someone clearly wins a fight only to be stitched up by the judges or vice-verse. I have watched the Norton 3, Jones and Young fights on numerable occasions and cannot for the life of me see where the robbery comes into it. Norton 3 was tight, no doubt, and if kenny got the nod i wouldnt have argued. However, it WAS tight so its hardly a gift. Jones, i watched this recently and although Jones done well, Ali still won 6 rounds and the fight. Young, im still not sure about. A stinker of a fight from both guys and if i had my way, both would have lost, but id hardly call it a gift as both were dire. Young didnt do enough to win and Ali wasnt much better.

In fact, the only fights that he was CLEARLY beaten on where the 5 that he actually lost

just my 2 cents.

 

I like your posts FF, you say what you think and fair play but in the whole time ive followed boxing ive never ever heard or read anyone share this opinion on either chuvalo fight. Its ludicrous

 

I've never determined which reason most aptly describes the judges in Ali-Norton III, (I just know that the decision stunk) so it's apprpriate to say that they were either incompetent, crooked or both. Thank you for those classifications McVey...surely they take in all the possible diagnoses for those terrible judges and their lousy decision.
As for Young, you're clearly just prejudiced against Young and his style. You know yourself that a win is a win is a win..it doesn't matter worth a damn that Young's temperment and style are not of your liking..he made Ali look old, slow and confused that night and deserved to walk away with the heavyweight title.

 

Stevie, I admire your understatement here in descibing FF's views as "eccentric"..I'll follow suit and leave it at that. I was going to use a stronger adjective and and skewer Frank a bit, but I like your style and I think understatement is most effective:good

 

U weren't a doctor in that hospital Ali visited after Chuvalo , were u ?
and yet even surer , u didn't treat Chuvalo after their fight .

and regarding your other post , rd 1 was a 10-8 4 Jones , because only d ropes kept Ali up in it , and besides , 2 fit other viewer's taste , Jones clearly showed clear domination in that rd , and there were more than a few rds i'd call even in this fight , so a narrow Jones win it should have been , under fair judges that is .

 

Arthur Mercante is generally acknowledged as one of the great referees, Harold Lederman was a vastly experienced judge who now does colour commentary ,I'm not familiar with the other judge. What it boils down to is that three experienced men watched the fight from the best seats in the house, ,they then gave their verdict on it, you watched it from where ? Because you disagree with the verdict they are gifts? That is asinine, no close fight is a gift / robbery,be it Hagler/Leonard, Khan /Peterson who ever. No I don't care for Young's style he got what he deserved in his close fights because he did not have it in him to close the show and go for it,he was Mr Negative personified.
Ali WAS old ,slow, and confused, and a prime Young did not have the ambition ,desire/ balls ,call it what you will, to put the decision beyond doubt. That's why Ali was champ 3 times ,and Young was just another decent fighter, who underperformed in his most important fights, and ended up as a foot note.

Regarding the 3rd Norton fight, you might take some comfort from this quote, though I cannot vouch for its veracity.


KEN CRIED FOR YEARS ABOUT DECISION
During one last photo op, Ali leans over to Norton and says. “That third fight, I think you got it, champ!” With those words, the weight that came off Norton’s shoulders, hitting the floor so hard it sounded like falling concrete. Ken’s eyes lit up like you wouldn’t believe. Reaching over, grabbing Ali, I thought Norton was suffering from some type of emotional release. Yeah, I know he beat the guy that beat the guy, didn’t get the call, but here was Ali acknowledging the fact that Ken was right all along, he had beaten Ali!