If Ward had of fought Bute before Froch beat him...

The triangle theory is garbage except when you're attempting to maintain a bull**** argument, is that right?

Dawson has one defeat and got one lucky decision, accumulating a 7-1 record against top-five opponents. He earned a far wider victory over Hopkins than Calzaghe did (albeit against a slightly older Bernard). And he's still in his 20s! That's a remarkable achievement in today's era.

You resort to daily histrionics about Ward being a hometown fighter, yet Dawson gets no credit from you for going to Montreal to fight both Pascal and Diaconu.

Froch has two defeats, was seconds away from another, and was lucky to get another decision. He obviously has a great resume, too, of course — mostly due to beating Pascal and Bute, as well as fighting a great and competitive fight against Kessler — but he has more warts on his than Dawson does. Still, if you want to make a resume-based argument that Froch would be a better win for Ward over Dawson at 168, that's cool.

What we're arguing is that Dawson's boxing ability, speed and extraordinary reach advantage will challenge Ward in a way he never has been; Dawson has fought guys similar to Ward more than Ward has fought anyone similar to him. It's a styles-make-fights thing.

Kessler's resume is clearly weaker than Dawson's, however. You're becoming awfully provincial to suggest he's a more accomplished fighter. Siaca and Sartison. ...

 

I don't know that it is so much people rating Dawson higher as that they see it as him being a better fighter. If he looks sharp at 168, it will be an excellent win for Ward. If he looks drained and sluggish(which may end being the case, who knows), there will always be that footnote.

Dawson has always lacked a certain killer instinct. He did in that Pascal fight for sure. Hats off to Pascal for sure, but I'll always view that figth as Dawson letting Pascal take it away from him. He was the more talented fighter, but doesn't have the approach to match. For whatever reason, in his enemy's backyard, he sat back and fought a defensive fight. He turned it on later, but it was too little, too late, and the cut ended things early. I would pick Dawson in a rematch to win clearly.

Unfortunately, based on subsequent fights I'm not 100% sure he learned his lesson.

 

Doesn't really mean all that much in my eyes. Pavlik moved jumped up to fight Hopkins at a catch weight. Would stand to reason the same would have been applied to Calzaghe.

Either way, I don't think it's really the circumstances, but the idea that the fighters viewed it a bit differently then us fans.

 

The scenarios are very similar. Calzaghe fought nearly his entire career at 168, and Pavlik is a big 160 who was having trouble making weight. Both were undefeated, HBO very much wanted the fight, and it was a go if Joe had said yes.

It's your opinion that Bute looked better against common opposition, but that is not a consensus view. Besides, at the point Ward beat Froch and Kessler, who gave a **** how he'd looked against Bika or Miranda? The fact you're resorting to fighters of that caliber to boost Bute's credentials refutes the very point you're attempting to make.

He had no victories on a par with Froch and Kessler, at the minimum. He also had more filler with the likes of Mendy and Magee.

Pavlik was easily more vetted against world class opposition than Bute. There's no comparison between the two, given that Pavlik was the true and proper MW champ and had knocked his man out to win the belt. He nearly got stopped by Taylor, just as Bute nearly got stopped by Andrade. So there again, Pavlik's worst moment wasn't nearly as bad as Bute's.

You don't want to admit that Calzaghe applied Ward's thought process to Pavlik for obvious reasons (you're a nationalistic troll), but he absolutely did.

 

Belts r meaningless, who cares how long bute has held a paper title.

I admit ure slick. Better measuring stick is how many wins does bute has over top 5 opponents vs ward.

So bute looked better against froch than ward did?

 

Bailey , u are trying to say that if instead of Froch would've been Ward in the last fight of Bute , the fight would've been more competitive and very close , right ?!