Joe Bugner Tribute Thread: All Time Great Contender

Between 1972 and 1977, Bugner went 18-4, with his only losses being to Ali, Frazier, and Lyle. Nobody expected him to win the Ali or Frazier fights. The wins included victories over several respectable top-15 names, such as Ellis, Foster, and Dunn. I'm not sure that qualifies as "inconsistent."

 

Ellis did beat Chuvalo in 1971. He also won 11 out of 12 between the first Frazier loss and the end of 1972, his only defeat coming against Ali. That's not so bad.

I think Ellis's real decline started in 1973, when he was stopped by Shavers in one round. The split decision loss to Kirkman was a shocker. It was also surprising that Ellis was held to a draw by Larry Middleton. Hometown cooking may have been a factor working against Jimmy in both fights, though.

Ellis was dominated by Lyle and Bugner, which is no shame given that these guys were rated in the top 5 or 6 worldwide at the time. Finally Frazier TKO'd Ellis in 1975.

But even in spite of Ellis's post-1973 decline, all the boxing magazines still rated him well within the worldwide top-15 in late 1974. That speaks well of Bugner's win over Jimmy that year.

 

I remember the Lyle fight, and I admit to being quite let down by the result. I was just a kid at the time, but before the fight, was convinced Bugner would win. The oddsmakers favored Bugner by 2 to 1 in the weeks leading up to the bout (the betting numbers slipped to 8-5 favoring Joe on fight day), which bolstered my confidence.

For nine rounds, the match was anyone's fight, with Bugner apparently have a slight edge. Two judges had him up on the cards at that point. Lots of mauling, pushing, occasional heavy punching on the inside. Bugner, in fact, broke Lyle's nose in the mid-rounds, and I think Ron had to go without a mouthpiece after that.

But Lyle swept the final three rounds cleanly. I'm not sure what happened: either Bugner was not as well conditioned as he could have been, or Lyle's power punches finally wore Joe down. Either way, Bugner suffered a broken rib and a punctured eardrum. The eardrum injury in particular could explain why Bugner shifted to the defense in the 10th, 11th, and 12th.

Final scores were a split decision for Lyle, which was fair. Lyle's win was narrow but clear.

One mystery about this fight is why didn't Bugner exhibit the fast, circling footwork he showed earlier in his career against Ali and Frazier. That's what it took to beat a brawny guy like Lyle. Did Lyle force Bugner off his feet? Or was Bugner not sufficiently prepared for the fight?

Throughout the bout, Bugner mauled, and failed to box, with his harder-hitting foe. I was expecting Bugner to command the fight from the distance, spearing Lyle with jabs, and running and clinching when necessary. Instead we got indecisive wrestling, which ultimately worked to the powerful Lyle's advantage.

This fight did a lot of damage to Bugner's reputation.

 

I've already explained to you why a guy's win column -- and his lack of wins over a top contender -- don't tell the full story about his abilities. I can't understand why the point eludes you.

And my point about Ellis, Foster and Dunn is that they were solid top-15 talents. Not many contenders even beat many top-15 talents. Lots of guys in the top ten get there by beating one or two top-20 opponents, and nobody else.

Do you really believe that Cooper's disputed win over the 198 lbs Zora Folley is more of an accomplishment that Bugner's losing efforts against Ali and Frazier in 1973?

You need to lay off the record books and pay more attention to what happens inside the ring.

 

Bugner remained ranked in the worldwide top-10 consistently between 1971 and 1977. That doesn't qualify as "established" for you?