Calzaghe SMW reighn vs. Hopkins MW reighn

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by iceferg, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. Slacker

    Slacker Big & Slow Full Member

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    Hopkins is a legend. His run of title defenses is historic by itself. The fact that he's gone on to win world titles in his 40's makes him an ATG.

    Joe is a shadow in comparison to Hopkins.

    Besides, the Eubank win came less than a year before Eubank retired. Its not like Joe beat a prime version of him.
     
  2. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    can you see that you are trying to claim that best accomplished wins=near height of ability?

    And whislt I am not saying they are entirely mutually exclusive, they are different things.
     
  3. exodus

    exodus Active Member Full Member

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    Wow

    The toddler speaks truth.

    Out of the mouth of babes, they say.
     
  4. HEADBANGER

    HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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    this is something i wrote about calzaghe and hopkins about a year ago iceferg








    1st of all lets dispell the myth about the supposed greatness of hopkins resume, take away the smoke and the mirrors and this is what your left with from hopkins 6 best wins, with 4 of them being from when he made his opponent fight way above what their best weight was.





    trinidad
    prime weight = welterweight (147)
    fought hopkins at middleweight (159) :deal
    trinidads record at middleweight or above from hopkins onwards = 2 wins / 3 defeats

    winky wright
    prime weight - light middleweight (154)
    fought hopkins at - 170 lbs :deal
    in 57 fights, the hopkins fight was the only fight that wright had weighed over 160 lbs (a full 10lbs difference)

    de la hoya
    prime weight - welterweight (140lbs)
    fought hopkins at - middleweight (160lbs) :deal
    de la hoya only fought twice in his career at middleweight out of 45 fights -1 win / 1 loss - the win was a very debatable decision over eurobum felix sturm

    pavlik
    prime weight - middleweight (160 lbs)
    fought hopkins at - 170 lbs :deal
    in 34 fights pavlik had only fought 2 minnions at the beginning of his career at 169. all pavliks fights since hopkins have been at the 160 limit.

    tarver
    prime weight 175
    great 2 weight jump from hopkins and his best win despite tarver being a b-level fighter and going 3 wins / 3 losses from hopkins onwards.

    johnson
    prime weight -super mid / light heavy (162 to 175)
    fought hopkins at - middleweight (160)
    johnsons record at 160 + from hopkins onwards - 19 wins / 14 defeats / 2 draws
    the defeats have come against people of the level of ottke, woods, shieka, gonzales, harmon, branco, vanderpool, Kiwanuka, sosa :lol:





    next you throw in the fact that calzaghe beat hopkins sandwiched inbetween hopkins supposedly best performances of tarver, wright, pavlik, pascal.

    take into account that for the hopkins fight, calzaghe
    - fought at light heavy for the 1st time
    - fought in hopkins back yard
    - had hopkins brother joe cortez referee the fight and do everything in his power to try and even up the fight

    despite all this, joe calzaghe with extreme brittle hands defeated hopkins.



    now we here you hopkins fans scream "that wasn't hopkins prime", well it was certainly the point of hopkins career where he was getting his best results. was hopkins prime when he was beating robert allan 3 times and beating hakkar and calling every welterweight on the planet to fight him?



    so we then answer the question of why the 2 hopkins and calzaghe didn't fight each other whilst in their supposed primes in 2002



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    now it wouldn't be fair for me not to give hopkins some credit because he is a very clever man, extremely astute tactically and defensively, he knows how to disrupt an opponents rhythm and he knows to neutralise an opponents strengths. he's also very good at calling out fighters he knows he can expose tactically and calling out fighters he will have big weight and strength advantages over.


    the bottom line in all this for me though, is that bernard hopkins was not good enough to win 7 of his fights (5 defeats, 2 draws). there is a clear blueprint there of how to beat hopkins and this is probably the reason why hopkins didn't want to fight dawson but was desperate to fight pascal.

    on the other hand, there is no blueprint to beat calzaghe, sure fighters can cause calzaghe problems but there is a versatility in him, a common trate in great fighters where he can adapt to the man he is fighting and find a way to win, the charachter to stare adversity in the face and walk through it by adapting his gameplan to that of his opponent.

    for hopkins there will always be a blueprint of how to beat him but for calzaghe there never will be. on top of that there will always be that head to head victory over a version of hopkins that is far better than any hopkins fan on here will be prepared to admit, as well as the 7 fights hopkins wasn't good enough to win.
     
  5. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    That was disgraceful.
    True. Outside of Tarver his record isnt very good against top fighters who were not blown ups.
     
  6. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Both of these guys moved up to super middle weight in an attempt to win a title and neither succeeded. Echols losing to Mundine and Vanderpool losing to Lacy.
     
  7. HEADBANGER

    HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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    i think tarver is his greatest achievement, i'm not sold on tarver being a particularly great fighter but it was still a magnificent win for hopkins.

    the same for the win v pascal as well, not because i think pascal is any great shakes but because of hopkins age and the fact he did it in pascals back yard.
     
  8. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well you can't go destroying champions when your shot. I personally did not see a better performance from B-Hop than the Tarver/Pavlick ones.
     
  9. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    DLh was nothing special at mw, but Tito was decent, although not as good as people like to make him out to be. I would favor Pavlik against those two at mw, but I cant see how that makes Pavlik a good win at lhw.

    Hopkins best wins imo:
    Tito
    Tarver
    Pascal
     
  10. HEADBANGER

    HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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    you can say the same for glen johnson, johnson had relative success at 160 and 175, but his record in the 168 division was terrible.
     
  11. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Hopkins deserves a lot of credit for what he's done in his 40's and I can understand how it may tip it in his favour in many people's eyes over Calzaghe. People should remember though that this is a MW title reighn vs. SMW title reighn thread.
     
  12. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    Tarver is a hit and miss fighter. He obviously has certain character flaws which have held him back to some extent.
    I agree with this. Pascal is basically contender level with four rounds of stamina. Dawson had no business losing to a fighter of that calibre
     
  13. exodus

    exodus Active Member Full Member

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    This is all well and good if you

    a. believe every report that comes your way, and
    b. believe that Calzaghe actually beat Hopkins.

    I don't think there is a distinct blueprint of a game plan to beat Hopkins. I think he beats himself. When he's in a position to do more than usual to overturn the bias against him, he sometimes refuses to. You can see it happening in the fight. He is doing enough, having an easy run, frustrating his opponent, but because of his complacency doesn't do that bit extra.
     
  14. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Roy Jones clearly beat Hopkins and went into the fight with a broken hand.
     
  15. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    he won the title at 168, although the germans took it from him.

    i wouldnt call that terrible, unless you mean Calzaghe winnning the WBO title was a terrible acheivement too.