Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Diamond Eye, Jun 29, 2012.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Read and refuted.

    Next.
     
  2. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Yes, Choynski was named hardest hitter by a few people from memory Jeffries, Johnson, Sharkey and someone else. The fact that a super middle is the biggest puncher of the era doesn't speak too highly for the punchers of that era. Choynski probably hits very hard but how would he feel next to a Tyson, Foreman even a Marciano or Dempsey (this is H2H and Johnson is a Heavy). I don't know whether Johson himself was a Super Middle but what I can say is that Johnson is naturally the far bigger man and I bet alot closer to 200lbs then Choynski. The Ketchel KD didn't look to dubious IMO and I don't see even the likes of Norton being decked by it.

    Yes the supremely larger Johson KO'd Ketchel outweighing him by 35lbs not much to brag about there.
    You say he KO'd Denver Ed Martin admitedly I know nothing of the man but a glance at his record doesn't go much in the way of adding anythign to Johnson's punching power.
    Yes, he KO'd McVey when he was very young, inexperienced and outweighed.

    You name all those names but seriously despite the fact they may be so and so tall and so and so heavy do they seriously compare to great modern fighters of the same dimensions? We are looking at Johnson H2H and Johnson being a heavy is gonna be against the likes of Ali, Holmes, Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis etc. etc. Does his chin and punching power take him over the line against such opponents? Because his skill certainly won't.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson was nowhere near 200lbs when he fought Choynski.
    The knockdown by Ketchel appears to show Johnson beginnning to fall before he is hit.

    Johnson only scaled 185lbs a year after his fight with Choynski.

    McVey was 17lbs heavier than Johnson for their last fight.

    Ketchel scaled over 170lbs when he fought Johnson so he was not a middleweight then was he?

    Apart from Johnson ,Langford was the only other man to actually ko McVey.


    I am not arguing the respective skills of the men Johnson fought, vis a vis today's fighters, that was not the original bone of contention,[ if you wish to do that we can start a seperate thread] , just your sweeping statement that he, "very rarely fought men he didn't have a size dominance over", this is palpably incorrect as I have shown.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The bone of contention was over the statement that Johnson "very rarely fought men he did not have size advantage over".
    This is not true, as I have shown.... end of.
     
  5. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Didn't say he was 200 but I said I bet he was alot closer to it then Choynski and that he was naturally the far bigger man.

    From what I've seen of the punch seems legit, don't see much reason to fake a fall then KO the man cold the next second?

    You say Johnson only scaled 185 the following year what about Choynski? Ranging from the low 160 to high 160's. Like I said Johnson is naturally the far bigger man.

    Yes McVey was heavier but like I said inexperienced, young etc.

    Ketchel was billed at 170 1/4. Not a heavyweight nor even a good sized light heavy. He was a super middle. None of which matters because as I said H2H were gonna be putting Johnson against men his own size not people 30 1/4lbs lighter.

    Yes you have proved what I said to be incorrect let me rephrase and say Johnson never fought a proper sized heavyweight who was of high quality the kind of quality he'd be put up against like I said Tyson, Liston, Lewis, Ali, Holmes etc. Please do not say a young, inexperienced McVey or ancient Jeffries are of the same quality.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This would be the case with all Johnson's predecessors would it not.? Johnson's challengers had an average weight far above those champs that preceded him. And also most of those that succeeded him for a couple of decades.


    So what does this signify?