Joe Frazier vs Jack Dempsey ?

Frazier did have a productive righthand. He kept it moving. He whipped a nice righthook to the body and yes it had power cause you could hear it when it landed. An occasional right uppercut and a righthook.

He didnt put opponents to sleep with it but Joe was no one handed fighter.

 

I'm not sure why you keep saying this to white people who don't rate Dempsey as highly as yourself Burt. But allot of people inventers played roles developing the technologies that spawned the internet technology we have today and I don't think they were all white, it included Nigerian I believe for instance

 

I think what's forgotten too is that the Joe who fought Foreman in 73 was a far different fighter than the dominant champion of 68 - FOTC. Everyone who knew what happened at that time knows that Joe didn't think much of Foreman and thought he was a tune up for a rematch with Ali. Nearly everyone in the Frazier camp, even Futch to a degree thought George wouldn't pose any threats to Joe's title. Futch was said to have been pissed off and worried at all the partying going on in Jamaica, Frazier's lackadaisical attention to training and the fact the Norton was getting the better of the sparring sessions.

Dempsey could likely beat the Frazier of 73, but I'd bet on him doing it with lots of circling and feinting to set up his punches. Joe would still attack him and try to make him miss but would be a lot more open to Jack's dangerous shots from both hands.

Now the prime version of Frazier, I believe would have too much head movement and his pace would be too much for Dempsey. Joe gets caught and dropped with an early round shot, almost too enthusiastic standing and trading with Jack. He'd get up, weather whatever early storm Dempsey has and would grind him to the body and head on route to a late round stoppage. Joe probably has Dempsey down and hurt too.

 

the vitriol of today when men are not men who naysay that 50 years later whitey nay create the internet is an agenda and BIAS when hundreds of boxer writers nat fleicher et al, sam langford with ONE EYE etc i daresay that naysay, well i am in good company, P...

, cheers

 

Frazier starts a little faster than normal, takes some good shots but dishes out some of his own, slowly but surely takes control by round 4, breaks Dempsey down by attrition, and takes Jack out somewhere between the 7th and 10th.

 

Agree with virtually all of what is stated here, except I don't see Dempsey making it into the late rounds with absolute prime '68-'71 Frazier.

 

Very few heavyweights if any would hear the bell for round 12 and up against the 68 - FOTC Frazier.

Ali, Holmes, Louis, Marciano, maybe Johnson and maybe Lennox Lewis IMO. The only fighter prime for prime from this list that could possibly outwork Frazier to the final bell is Marciano but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Hey PowerPuncher , no one is calling me a "white gooftrooper" and think I will take their SELF HATRED...I don't know your freakin background PP, but I don't say Black gooftrooper or yellow gooftrooper, cause I know you don't tar a whole race by saying such vile things, and I don't want any self hating lectures from the likes of you or any of your pandering ilk...I fought for my country and had friends die and no one is going to call me or my family, nor my race "white gooftroopers", so direct your crap at yourself...
Fed up with your self hatred of your race or my race...Either way it is wrong and I loathe this wrong B.S. :hi::hi::hi:

 

P.S. It was "Suzie Q", who said "white gooftrooper", and Power Puncher ,a self loathing caucasian defended him...So a pox on both of you and if I get banned from this forum, so be it....:hi:

 

Dempsey was about 1 1/2" taller with about a 3" longer reach. Frazier was about 20 Lbs. heavier.

Both men had good power, workrate, and durability but they fought in very different styles IMO. Their opponents were much different.

Dempsey beat Fireman Jim Flynn 1 out of 2 (both fights were 1st round KOs and possibly fixes), went 1-2-2 vs. Willie Meehan (all were 4 rounders), beat Gunboat Smith W4 and KO2, Carl Morris W4, WDQ6, and KO1, Homer Smith KO1, Bill Brennan KO6 and KO12, Billy Miske D10, W6, and KO3, Jess Willard KO3, Georges Carpentier KO4, Tommy Gibbons W15, Luis Angel Firpo KO2, and Jack Sharkey KO7 among others. He lost to Gene Tunney twice (L10 x2). He went 7-2 (5) in HW World Title Fights.

Frazier beat Oscar Bonavena W10 and W15, Eddie Machen KO10, Doug Jones KO6, George Chuvalo KO4, Buster Mathis KO11, Jerry Quarry KO7 and KO5, Jimmy Ellis KO5 and KO9, Bob Foster KO2, Muhammad Ali W15, and Joe Bugner W12 among others. He lost 2 out of 3 to Ali and two fights vs. Foreman (both by KO). He went 10-2 (8KO) in HW World Title Fights.

I'll take Frazier by decision or maybe even late round KO.

 

Joe was great but this may be an overstatement. Mathis was not that tough and he made it to the 11th. Bonevena went 15. Frazier was a machine though.

 

Buster Mathis senior was a nimble big man. A decent heavyweight for his time that would give every heavyweight fighter on honest fight.

Bonavena had him down twice the first time and some say he deserved that one but Joe outworked him.

Besides Marciano, I don't think there are many that outwork a prime Joe to win a decision against him over 15 rounds. Like I said, Ali, Holmes, Louis, Marciano, Johnson and perhaps Lennox Lewis could outwork Joe and it would be close in all contests.

 

Buster Mathis was built up on ham and eggers ,he was not even rated,and had no business fighting for any version of the Heavyweight ttitle , not even N Y State's.The fact that he was competitive and went into the 11th rd , being stopped on his feet , poses serious questions about the statement that very few men would go into the 12 rd with Frazier. Throw the Bonavena fights into that mix and said statement becomes absurd.

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Young Jack.

 

But Burt he didn't that was you, he called Willard and other boxers 'white gooftroopers', which for some reason, perhaps paranoia, you thought he was saying about you

I'm not sure what self hatred has to do with the development of internet technologies Burt :huh

Suzie Q is white, a soldier and his favourite boxers are Rocky Marciano, hence his name. I don't think he called you or your family "white gooftroopers', nor the whole white race, he called certain boxers that, which isn't really the same thing.

:huh not sure how pointing out a few facts constitutes 'defending' or 'self loathing' Burt

 

AS always it is a matter of styles ...while Mathis was not deeply proven as a pro he was a big, strong, fast talented boxer with a fine amateur pedigree ... his size was misleading and coming into the Frazier fight he had the confidence of not only beating Jo twice in the amateurs but of being undefeated ... as a jab and move boxer of huge size he was able to run, box and survive till Frazier simply wore him down and crushed him ... keep in mind this was also , still, a very young Frazier experience wise ...Bonavena was simply a rock, strong and tough, that huge tough with Joe twice ... their second fight was not as competitive as their first but Oscar did go the distance w him twice ...