How would Liston have done against Marciano's title opposition ?

By" IT" do you mean Al Weil?

Because Liston had all the tools in the ring to handle Marciano`s opposition and Marciano himself.

 

Just giving some perspective to the subject. Not declaring that Liston was better than Ali but a few of those guys we remember Ali being so impressive against, Sonny Liston beat better versions of those same fighters. In devastating fashion.

I dont know how many times Ive heard that the Ali that beat Clevleland Williams was untouchable. That was his peak. Truth is Williams was a shell of the figter Sonny Listion brutalized. 2x.

 

even terms with rex layne!!! Have you seen those fights? Rex was better than most of charles's title chalengers yet charles knocked him out bad in 11 rounds. The rematch went the same way only it was set for 10 and rex survived and got an outrageous hometown nod because jack dempsey had 7 rounds even to keep the locals happy. In the 3rd fight charles pounded rex, dropped him twice and got the decision.

Ancient walcott?

Charles has a close fight with a cuban in miami - who wont rematch him and eitherside, lost to lot of guys charles beat up...

Harold johnson beat machen just as easily as Liston did.

 

Truth is williams on his best night was no great shakes as a contender in anyways.

 

NO.. but IT I mean intangibles that Liston only dreamed of having... Will... Heart.. Integrity... just to name a few. People love to talk about LIston's size... power.. reach... blah blah blah... what it comes down to for is... when the going got tough... he sat on his stool one time and took a dive the other. Making Liston out to be a world beater he never was just because his dimensions were nice is a folley when we ACTUALLY saw what the man did in the ring and outside the ring. It's not as if he was a yioung prospect who's life was cut short and we have ot imagine what he could've been... We saw.. and it was not even close to a Maricano calibur fighter...

 

Sonny Liston had those. He fought 6 rounds with a broken jaw(you see the way victoria ortiz quit?) and also came back to win a fight with a badly broken nose.

Ahh so getting your nose broken by the divisions hardest puncher doesn't qualify as a "tough" time?

 

Actually, Liston was better than Marciano. He was much better equipped, and had enough toughness to prevail over any Marciano late round assault. Not to mention Marciano would be taking severe punishment from him in the process.

 

Umm No, I mean quitting on your stool and then taking a dive... NONE of which exhibit Will, Heart or Integrity. To say nothing of his out of ring life which further show the lack there of. These are the facts.. we can all dream of what liston COULD'VE been with his God given size and abilities.. great.. but what we can't do is reverese project what didn't happen to what would happen.. when ya know.. we saw what happened. Liston is no Marciano and doesn't have the IT marciano had.. If he did, he may have been the best ever.. problem is.. he wasn't.. not even close and there is a reason for it... not bad luck and nobdoy who was worth a damn to fight.

 

Funny you say that.. because when it comes to Career and Career accomplishments... Liston can't even hold Marciano's jock strap. He's a water boy compared to Marciano and what he accomplish with his LACK of abilities. We can muddle all we want about all the "talent" pacman jones had.. **** if he had "IT" to go alone with his God given abilities.. he would've been Charles Woodsen Version 2.. Problem was, he wasn't, and turned out to be Pacman Jones.

 

Dude you are full of contradictions ...

The rematch went the same way except one was a KO victory and the other a decision loss :nut THe point is the KO aside at this point Charles was a shell of his prime. He did not have the legs , period. He had to slug with a medicore talent like Layne .. Listoon would have flattened this version of Charles like he did Patterson.

Yes,, 38 is old for a fighter, News to you ?

 

But Marciano would "out-integrity" Liston.

 

No Liston would try and pacman Marciano.. and fail miserably. Pacman Jones could do the Heisman Trophy pose all he wants... and had the talent to be that guy.. problem is.. he lack IT to go along with that talent. Kinda like a certain Sonny Liston. No amount of extrapolating his career and reverse projecting feats he never accomplished to try and justify this image you guys have in your head about what he could've been.. changes what he ACTUALLY WAS

 

Charles would not have gone in 1 round like patterson. He was far more durable than Patterson. I could see Charles lasting 7-8 rounds. Charles would win a few rounds off Liston. The charles of june 17th 1954 was past his prime, but he has still had plenty of skills, speed, craftiness, slick upperbody movement..and a lot of toughness and grit. He was in terrific shape. A difficult fight for most heavyweight champions.

Charles did not slug with Layne, he outboxed him and cut his race into ribbons

 

Here is how I view Charles career

1946-1949 Prime ATG
1950-1951 Slightly Past prime, still a great fighter
1952-1954 Past his prime, but still a world class, very good fighter(great at times like june 17th 1954)
1955-post Washed up

 

Of course he might which is EXACTLY why I choose that qualitiy when talking about THESE fighters specifically.. cause ya know.. Marciano would've never quit on his stool when the going got tough.... He would've never taken a bribe to take a dive.. or stayed down because he knew he couldn't win... Marciano had that thing that might come into play with these two and "out-integrity" liston