Mike Tyson.....Was he overrated?

Two of The Greatest Ever. :deal

Before going to the NFL, Sanders was the greatest college player ever:

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Does anyone find it interesting

that so many people with the

last name 'sanders' are multi sports stars?

Dieon Sanders
Barry Sanders


CORRIE Sanders.

Full Time Golfer
Part time Boxer
Part time Cook
Part time ****** of Ukrainian Boys

 

overrated or not Tyson would have battered the klits.

 

Tyson's prime was short not from physical erosion associated with aging but rather the rapid erosion of his once dynamic skill set.

To compare Tyson to the superheavyweights Lewis and the K-bros is redicoulous. Times change just like Marciano can't be compared H2H to those giants.

 

Tyson was a great fighter but his career had no longevity at all and his prime years were spent fighting nobodies, shot old champions and LHW's .

The best opponents available for Mike came after his s'posed prime years (all 2 of them) where he was made to struggle and the argument of his prime only lasting until 88 gives him a pass on those performances. That combined with a monumental knockout reel leaves a lot of the casuals and less knowledgable boxing fans to believe that the 86-88 version of Tyson was the greatest ever.

I think Mike was an excellent talent and a great HW but he is massively overrated by many....
He did the sport the world of good, but there are many that put him up to a god like status which is where he gets overrated for me.

 

"Mike Tyson.....Was he overrated? "

Whateryou, frickin' HIGH ?

 

Alright, Alright.

He is overexposed, not overrated.

Heartbreaking. :-(

Nobody worth paying attention to rates Tyson as Greater than any of those mentioned, including myself. I know Mike will *Never* get full appreciation from the staunch supporters of SBA: He just did not fight in that style and if anything, resembles more of Mexican Warrior.

In terms of skills and ability, I don't think there's ever been a 215-220 lb fighter more coordinated or who moved so fluidly. He was not up against men of much more similar physical dimensions and measurements like the aforementioned; he was never going to be able to put on back-foot boxing clinics against world-rated heavyweights. That's only a recipe for defeat and runs the risk of possibly getting himself KTFO in that division. He was cursed to be a come-forward, aggressive natured fighter. It was not a philosiphy of his to use his face as a mode of defense and he often effectively jabbed his way in, slipped and countered shots to near perfection, used a variety of angles and planes of movement to create openings, simultaneously able to shuffle his feet quickly into position to gain full leverage on his combinations to the body and head. His defense I do believe was slightly overstated, if energy wasting and used as a tool to get himself into his mid-range sweet spot but it's hard to argue it's effectiveness up through his first 35-37 fights over which he cleaned out most of the division. I think Mike's aggressive style, work rate, effective defense, good chin and lightning quick hands make him just as adept to taking wide points decisions as the next guy and it happened on a few ocassions. The knockouts were the result of his natural power added to all of the above. I don't know that it's fair to mark him down for his natural ability in that area anymore than it would be to criticize Floyd or Pernell for their godly reflexes.

:deal :yep

Pretty harsh assessment from a fairly respected poster. I'm a little concerned you're not familar with the specifics of Tyson or the era having seen you post that Berbick won a title off a shot Muhammad Ali earlier, when he in fact outpointed an undefeated Pinklon Thomas, whom Larry Holmes decided to pass up in favor of Michael Spinks to reach 49-0. While it's accurate that much of the competition was decidedly good B-level fighters, it's worthwhile to note that in many instances, Tyson was fighting the absolute highest rated fighter he could've fought at the time he did. If you honestly think being one of top ten rated heavyweights in the world is easily accomplished, I'd encourage you to go try it out.

Tyson's prime didn't last long, but it's made up for with his activity level. Prior to his incarceration, he compiled a 41-1-0 (36 KOs) record over the course of just seven years from 1985-91. That W/L ratio and the number of fights look awfully similar to another heavyweight regularly rated inside the top five on here. Don't worry, they both beat pretty much the same number of world-rated opponents. You can cite the lack of greats all day long, but the blame certainly doesn't fall on Tyson, who was fighting the best opposition available to him. Need proof? Here's the rating of several fighters he fought during his prime at the time he fought them, not including himself obviously: Trevor Berbick (31-4, #1), Bonecrusher Smith (19-5, #1), Pinklon Thomas (29-1, #1), Tony Tucker (34-0, #1), Tyrell Biggs (15-0, #8 ), Michael Spinks (31-0, Lineal claimant), Carl Williams (22-2, #2), James Douglas (29-4, #7), Razor Ruddock x2 (25-1, #1). He also took care of Frank Bruno (32-2) as a mandatory, who had been and would again be a top-rated heavyweight and future titlist, beat the hell out of Tubbs (24-1) inside two for a large payday in Tokyo, who'd give prime Riddick Bowe all sorts of a fight long afterwards; Alex Stewart (26-1) inside of a round, whom was never on the canvas against Holyfield (and would go the distance with in a second fight) and lost a close decision to Foreman afterwards.

You guys continually bring up Spinks the LHW and Holmes the washed up ATG and refuse to acknowledge a few key points here. Spinks beat an undefeated Larry Holmes at Heavyweight convincingly the first go-round, who while no longer prime, was again: undefeated. He's not exactly John Ruiz, folks. Second, it was at the time an absolute public demand that Tyson fight Spinks and The RING had recognized him as the Top Heavyweight until Tyson beat him. A good number of people in and around boxing actually gave him a fair chance to win the damn fight. To see his performance ravaged by revisionist historians is pretty dispicable.

As far as Holmes, there is quite a lot made about his 21-month lay off between Spinks II and Tyson. He didn't willingly retire so much as he was basically forced into it, partly by his own hand with the comments he made. There's little doubt he won and was screwed out of the Spinks re-match and it left a bitter taste in his mouth. Perhaps the case for it being a worthless win would have credibility if Holmes hadn't decided to come back four years later at 42 and put a schooling on Ray Mercer to EARN himself a title shot against Holyfield, whom he won several rounds against and went the distance with, ditto for Oliver McCall at the age of 44. Nobody stopped or KO'ed Larry Holmes before or after, much less within four rounds.

 

Tyson would have killed Buster in a rematch.


That is the primary issue with every ATG other then Lewis.

99% of them could have avenged their losses, but they didn't.


Tyson would have brutally raped Douglas in a 2nd fight

Wladimir would have beaten Corrie and Purrity

Vitali would have beaten Byrd

Foreman WOULD have beaten Ali. right after the first loss.


They all could have, but for whatever reason they didn't.

you can bring up luck, fate,lack of interest, lack of chances.

It don't matter. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, nada

Lewis did.

deal:deal



oh wrong topic btw

 

The answer to this post is

Yes.

Hands of Iron and a few other Tyson fans are extremely intelligent and make great points. The sad thing is, the vast majority of Mike Fans are delusional

It is sad because you got real Tyson fans that knows he's an ATG and he was a bit unlucky.



But if we talking 'over rated' we gotta take EVERYONE'S VIEW POINT into perspective.

and Tyson is over rated.


WHY? Cuz you got casuals saying he will KO Ali within 3. And it's not just a handful, but many many casuals.


Lewis on the other hand may be a 'tad' over rated on ESB (largely due to the high number of Brits) but overall speaking, he's UNDER RATED still by the casuals.


I don't care if 'hard core' Tyson fans and 'boxing scribes' keep it real.

When millions of casual fans say Tyson is #1 ALL TIME

That makes him overrated

(just like Pacquaio)

 

Great post, I actually read all of that..

But that don't erase the fact that millions of casuals

when asked about Tyson Lewis will say

'**** when Mike was young, KO2 NP'


Now a Prime Lewis might not beat a Prime Tyson

but there won't be no ko2...

not to mention millions of casuals when asked who the

'goat' is

will either answer Tyson or Ali.

When Tyson is one of the 2 names on the lips of casuals in terms of 'goat' discussions .Yes , that is over rating him


It's cuz Mike is too popular lol

 

I meant casual fans as in people you meet off the streets. If someone is able to find their way onto a boxing forum, they generally know better.:yep

 

:happy Everyone needs to read this before this thread goes any further.

 

to be fair tyson did ko douglas, fight should have been stopped in the 8th. oh well ce la vie!

 

It was a close call - we've all seen worse in boxing and other sports.

Tyson is/was overrated. Getting beat by Douglas in his youth/prime, then later by a blown up CW (and a great one in Holly) is damning evidense. Tyson had this gangsta persona that fed into the hype, especially for the casual fan. Most ESBers should know better :-(

Then he meets LL and is dominated. Of course Tyson fans will say it was well past his oh so short prime. Well if your prime is so f'n short then you're most likely not all that great. Of course few mention that LL is older than MT !

Lastly you have the usual prime Mike would "easily" beat the K bros. Not a chance. Maybe Wlad if he caught him early. Lessor boxers went many rounds w/MT when he was in or near his prime. Late rounds Wlad would either stop MT or go on to a UD. Prime Vitali abuses any version of Tyson.

Tyson was a great small HW for his era. Once he slowed down, he became vulnerable to bigger boxer-punchers like LL. Near the end he gets beat by C level tub of lard McBride :huh Before that loss, there were many on here claiming that if Mike "got serious" he could clean out the HW div :nut