Ohhh yes there is no doubt bhops ego was working overtime I dont even think he was ever really serious about the fight and was quite surprised when early negotiations were going well, then of course as we know more money was sought and the fight was priced out of joe and cos hands And I wonder how happy deep down calzaghes promoter was that it never happened he was able to milk his cash cow a little more :yep He was not one for taking risks was he
Calzaghe was a much better fighter past prime. It was only then he started slipping punches and making adaptions during fights. American writers saw Calzaghe as a protected fighter and were caught up in the Jeff Lacy hype.
It wasnt just writers who thought lacy was the real deal And it was only after calzaghe took him to school that lacy was never the same fighter after that humiliation I dont think calzaghe was a better fighter past prime, because prime he had the speed and the power to go with it, its testiment to calzaghes skills that he adapted to be able to go the distance in almost every fight He didnt have the explosive power Without that power he was always at risk of being done on a scorecard etc Much better to know you can end the fight without that risk I do agree with you he slipped more punches later on but he was always a fighter that had good stamina, an ability to work the other fighter out etc He was a more dangerous fighter prime I dont think I could call him dangerous later on in his career
The problem is Lacy hadn't beaten anyone worth mentioning going into the Calzaghe fight. On top of that he had a limited skill set and did way too much weight lifting A lot of people were overly impressed with Lacy's stoppage wins and seemed to ignore the fact that he hadn't been tested. I decided to check Lacy out when I heard him referred to as the new Mike Tyson. I wasnt overly impressed with what I saw, especially during the Sheika fight Calzaghe never used his reflexes to the best of his ability during his prime. His defense was at its best during the Kessler fight, a fight in which he slipped and used footwork to get out of the range of punches. He was constantly getting hit with right crosses from Reid and Woodhall during his peak years. The first fight of his were I noticed him slipping punches was the Lacy fight. The first fight of his were I saw him making adjustments in fights would of been the Kessler fight. And that is why I say he was a better fighter past prime. He went life and death with Reid but comfortably outboxed Kessler, who was a better fighter than Reid.
The fights available would of been: mw: Pavlik smw: Liles lhw: G.Johnson, R.Johnson, Woods, Darius M, Tarver, Jones, Dawson
What the hell are you talking about? The version of Roy from 2000, and the 2008 version were worlds apart. I can't even debate something as stupid as this. There wasn't a noticable difference? Apart from his legs, footwork, reflexes, punch resistance, and confidence. Roy didn't look great against Tito. He also didn't look great against Hanshaw and Amaju. He clearly won, without much trouble, but he didn't look great. He looked great against Sheika and Lacy though. You've got to be winding me up and baiting me, because I've never heard anything as stupid.
I never mentioned any specific dates did I? I gave a list of potential opponents Joe could have faced if he'd have moved up to 175 before he eventually did in 2008. If he'd have moved up in 98/99 when he was 26/27, he could have targetted big named fighters such as, Roy, Reggie Johnson, Hill, Griffin and Toney etc. He could have found himself in that mix of company. Later on, he could have mixed with Tarver and Glen Johnson etc. The point I was making, was that he could have made 175 quite comfortably, and had big money fights against big name fighters, instead of starving himself to make 168 and fighting the Veits, Woodhalls, Reids and Brewers of the World. Also, answer me this question if you don't mind. You're always copying and pasting Joe's interviews and comments etc, so in your opinion, tell me when the 5 or 6 years were that Joe apparently chased Roy? If you've read the whole thread, you'll have seen my earlier post, where I broke the time frame down. Now Joe didn't chase Roy from 2002-2008. I've covered that time frame using factual information, that includes Joe's own comments. You're welcome to read it. So if Joe's telling the truth, he's saying that he was chasing Roy down from 1997-2002, which is just laughable! He knew he wasn't going to be paid the crown jewels, because who was going to pay it him? Nobody could have given him millions of pounds, because outside of the U.K. it wouldn't have been a huge fight. Joe knew this full well, but was happy to say to people "I'm desperate for the fight, but Roy doesn't want it, and they won't pay me enough" He makes out he was avoided, because it protects his pride and his ego. He tried to pull out of the Lacy fight, yet he chased Roy, when Roy was peak? Of course he did! That makes perfect sense doesn't it? Have you ever thought for one second, that Joe could have been lying? It's a joke!
FW's relationship with Joe was a strange one. From reading some of Frank's comments, I think he wanted Joe to go to the States a lot sooner and fight bigger names, where it would have got Joe more recognition, and they both would have benefitted from it. Yet on the other hand, the longer Joe stayed and defended his WBO belt in Britain, there was little risk of him losing his title, and they were both getting decent regular paydays. It would have been a big risk for Frank to send him to the States. So Frank in the end, was probably content just leaving him be. It was only after Lacy, that Frank tried to get him big fights, but by then time was against them. I felt embarrassed for Joe, when Frank made him fight Manfredo to gain U.S. exposure. But Joe was more than happy to keep re signing the contracts, and so was Enzo too. Like I say, it was strange. But I think Frank grew frustrated towards the end. But Frank was, and is an astute business man, and although he wanted Joe to go Stateside earlier than he did, I honestly don't think Frank would have gone all out to get Roy in the ring, around the time that Joe claims he was desperate to fight him. That would have been a huge unnecessary risk for Frank to take at the time. Also, regarding Lacy and Calzaghe, I think Lacy was the favourite, just through ignorance, and the fact that they'd only seen Joe fight a handful of times. Lacy was knocking everyone out, and Joe was still, at that point, a relatively unknown european fighter. If the U.S. fans and media etc, had seen Joe fight regularly like the British fans had, I'm sure the odds would have been in Joe's favour. Regards, Loudon.
Well then if you dont mention specific dates then you cant just pick a few fighters from each division over the years. I have already shown you that G Johnson lost his chance and Jones didnt want it. How is it a weak division. Look at it in 2005 and again today Here is an old post but not too old, obviously Bute has lost now but read on Back then there was in 2005 1. Calzaghe undefeated world champ (best SMW resume ever) 2. Kessler undefeated world champ (undefeated and not suffering double vision) 3. Lacy undefeated world champ (undefeated with a better resume than most of the current SMWs) 4. Beyer (3 time WBC champ with a better resume than most of the current SMWs) 5. Mundine (2 time WBA champ) 6. Danny Green who became a world rated CW and had a fair SMW resume 7. Siaca (former world champ) 8. Grant (former WBO MW champ) 9. Reid (former world champ, and fighter that looked unlucky against Ottke and who beat Magee when undefeated, who is now WBA int champ) 10. Andrade (undefeated at this time and looked unlucky not to KO Bute years later and beat Steiglitz) Now today you have Champ. Andre Ward whos biggest win is 05 #2 Kessler 1. Bute whos biggest win is who? Maybe Berrio or possibly WBA int champ Magee who Reid #9 in 05 beat years previously when undefeated 2. Froch who has lost to unwell 2005 #2 when unwell and coming off a loss 3. Steiglitz who lost to 2005 #10 Andrade 4. Oousthuizen, who has he beaten thats up there with like some of the 2005 fighters? 5. Bika who is rated so high now by doing what? Beating Manfredo, because I cant think of a bigger win tha he has and Bika lost to 2005 #1 Calzaghe years previously and couldnt beat Soliman at first ask who was clearly beaten on more than one occassion by Mundine 2005 #5 6. Groves, whos biggest win is a MD over 10 and 0 DeGale whos big win was P Smith. groves has only had 14 fights and although doing well in a short career is given a big status for little. 7. G Johnson who was a SMW journeyman who couldnt compete at SMW. Johnson has lost more fights than won at SMW and now with his biggest win of Green coming off a loss and well in his 40s he is a top 10 SMW atsch I could show you the form line of who Johnson lost to and then show you how it compares to 05 but I think you get the point. 8. Dirrell whos biggest win is?? Abraham maybe who cant compete with top SMWs or Oganov possibly. Who has Dirrell beaten for his rating? 9. Abraham. Now it is looking bad. Abraham cant seem to compete with fair SMWs and gets not just beaten but almost shut out, even by Froch who is slow and doesnt have a good workrate. Abrahams big SMW win is Taylor coming off a KO loss 10. Rodriguez. Tell me who he has beaten then? You would even struggle to say yeah but the fights didnt happen then because they did. Calzaghe beat Lacy and Kessler as well as Reid. Kessler beat Beyer, Mundine and Siaca. Beyer beat Green as did Mundine and Siaca beat Mundine etc. As you say hype has built it up Still even with the names you mention you are completely wrong and should be corrected Ottke - won 22 world title fights with Johnson being one of the victims Reid - winner of 4 world title fights at LHW and beatundefeated Magee who is now top 10 and looked unlucky against Ottke Woodhall - a winner of 3 SMW world title fights Veit - A winner of 2 SMW world title fights I notice how you miss names like Eubank and Mitchell to suit your arguement but no matter because you are still left with having to answer your own points because Roy - Wouldnt take the fight Johnson - Lost the chance to fight Calzaghe when Sheika beat him in the box off and then lost his chance again when Woods beat him as shown to you. So why you are bringing up Johnson I dont know because he was a SMW journeyman Griffin - Winner of 1 LHW title fight by DQ when unconcious. Yeah top fight Toney - This is where you really show a lack of knowledge. Toney was a CW before Calzaghe even won his first SMW title, at LHW, Toney did nothing and lost to people like Thadzi Tarver - Calzaghe beat the man who thrashed Tarver. In fact Calzaghe beat 2 fighters who beat Tarver
So you couldnt counter the points. Made no attempt to and because you dont agree, just say stupid. Well if what I say is so far out, you would be able to point straight to it. Look alt. You will give yourself away if you lose your temper, so here are the 2 videos that I recall and you tell me the difference, because one is Jones who failed a test against Hall, the other is Jones against Calzaghe [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbK4ATyNcv0[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2xuBqpngzQ[/ame] In both Jones lays on ropes and the speed doesnt look much different. The opponent is the main difference
Calzaghe never fought at MW so not sure why you note that division Liles - Calzaghe beat the fighter who KOd Liles Johnson - As shown earlier and not sure what you dont get, was a SMW journeyman and who both times lost the boxoff to fight Calzaghe Woods - who lost to Starie who Calzaghe beat DM - that would have been a good fight, but did Jones, Tarver or Johnson fight him? No Tarver - Calzaghe beat 2 fighters who beat him Jones - Calzaghe did beat him Dawson - Was a young up and comer who would have been badly beaten. with Dawson you forget that he jumped away from SMW when he was holding a low WBO SMW title to avoid Calzaghe and fight easier comp at LHW. Seems to be forgotten how that happend. Now Dawson is back at LHW. Go figure
So you admit now that you havent seen the Reid/Malinga fight . Yes Reid did have nights where he was on and others when he was off. How was Branco a journeyman, he was a world rated SMW and won the WBA LHW title. He beat Sahnoune, G Johnson, M Siaca, R Reid, T Tate and even now old and past his best fought Fragomeni to a draw for a CW world title. Not bad for a journeyman. Still you havent seen these fights and couldnt even say where you watched them. I asked this because I know where they were shown in the UK and strangely you now dont seem to have seen these fights or be able to tell me where you saw them. Odd Zod :think.
You fail to note that the Veit and Lock losses were after Calzaghe. Beasley and Williams were at MW not SMW. R Toney was a SD loss. Echoles was an up and down war where the commentators said it was questionable about the ref stopping the fight as Brewer had, had Echoles down 3 times and was not as shook up as Echoles had been by Brewer. Still as you note Brewer beat H Graham, Pemeberton who became top 10 rated and fought Ottke to 2 close SDs many felt he won
If Reid was so mediocre, what does it say about today that a Reid victim is now top 10 . Or that Reids resume is greater than alot of the current top 10. You fail to note that Lacy irreparably damaged his shoulder in his fight after Calzaghe and couldnt use the left hook as well again, yet still put J Taylor down. Lacy was 5-0 in world title fights was hyped to the hill and thought to be the heir apparent, having beaten around 4 top 10 world rated names