Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

In the sense that you think Britain might have been the plane of weakness to make the fight happen.

At least in America, you could hand pick a state athletic comission that you could persuade/bribe.

I guess they could have tried to get the Luxembourgh Boxing Comission to ratify the fight.

Also, you are straying into the teritory of asking Dempsey to start a moral crusade to rid the world of the colour bar.

 

Mc, You and I are in a "no win" situation...You repeat the the old bromide that for 7 years Dempsey did not fight Harry Wills,knowing or NOT knowing that Dempsey became HW champion, in 1919,and fought great money attractions til 1923, when he went Hollywood...So that is 4 years I believe...Did Harry Wills deserve a shot ahead of most of Dempsey's opponents, based on merit alone ? A resounding YES, Wills sure did...
Did Dempsey and Harry Wills finally sign for a bout with an out of town promoter Floyd Fitszimmons..? Heck yes...
Was there a ban for that bout by the New York State Commission, fearing possible riots that may occur as it did after the Jeffries/Johnson bout ..?
Absolutely YES...
Did a Jack Dempsey fear fighting a tall slow Harry Wills, or anybody when he was at his best. ? Hell NO. Dempsey was as tough a battler that ever lived and feared no one...Did Dempsey going Hollywood in 1923, help his
legacy. ? No. But putting myself in his shoes after living for years as a hobo, riding the under rails for years , who could blame him for finally making loot, taking care of his family in Colorado, going to Hollywood
and banging all the beautiful silent screen stars, one after another..?
I can't and Dempsey did what he desired, regardless of what people on ESB 85 years later thought...
So Mc, you CHASTISE, Jack Dempsey for not fighting Harry Wills, though they did sign...And I contend that Harry Wills deserved his title shot
against Dempsey,but circumstances and racial undertones of those long ago days , prevented that bout from occuring...After 85 years, time to move on I would think...

 

I'm still not convinced Dempsey ACTUALLY signed anything and REALLY wanted to fight Wills

 

This statement is based totally on supposition fueled by the Myth of Dempsey. Mr. Dempsey's actions speak otherwise. Wills was the greatest threat to his livelihood. It was awful convenient he found a way never to fight him.

 

You believe what you wish...I give up... Dempsey was a racist, Dempsey was a coward...Dempsey never signed for the Wills fight..What you see on the photo signing was a lookalike of Dempsey...I and millions of others who have a great opinion of Jack Dempsey were mislead, by writers, boxers of that time, who were far inferior to you sir...And Seamus I yield to your infinite boxing wisdom and acumen...And yes Dempsey was a "myth" as you sir, so nobly spout...Good day and sayonara....
Yours truly, A misguided Dempsey fan...

 

The NSC tried to promote a Johnson v Burns fight for Burns title, but the NSC,[famously *****rdly with their purse offers,] were vetoed by Burns , who wanted a lot more than the paltry figure they offered.

The NSC were somewhat "selective", about mixed race bouts,happy to promote a Langford v Hague fight,but luke warm about others.


Wills reflects on some of his opponents[ 1922 ],below, page 20.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...12734&dq=universal+services+harry+wills&hl=en

 

And YOU MC, would be right to say Dempsey absolutely "ducked" Harry Wills in a court of law IF there were No evidence of Harry Wills and Jack Dempsey signing a contract for a bout for promoter Floyd Fitszimmons, as shown in photos of that signing with Harry Wills and several personages PRESENT...Mc you lose the case...
And to say as you and other detractors of Jack Dempsey allege, that New York State Boxing Commission utterly BANNED this bout between a Black and White Heavyweight TITLE FIGHT, is untrue is not consistent with the FACTS of that time...And to insist that there was NO legitimate FEAR of possible racial riots if the bout were to be held is HYPERBOLE, shows me
your wish to demean Jack Dempsey today 85 years after is not based on the climate of those days, but on a vendetta on your part ...So Mc, if you detest Dempsey today without giving Jack Dempsey the benefit of the doubt is entirely up to you...I rest my case....Cheers...

 

A fine poster here ,and a well regarded author, Mr Clay Moyle dug this article up.I am indebted to him .

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1. 08-14-2011, 10:08 AM #1
   cmoyle
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   Registered User Join DateMar 2006Posts365vCash500
   
   1963 Ebony magazine article written by Jack Dempsey
   
   
   I believe the following article written by Jack Dempsey appeared in a 1963 issue of Ebony magazine. This is an excerpt of it that is included as a chapter in a 1963 book edited by two men from that magazine. The book is titled ‘White on Black’ and the title of the chapter is ‘Why Negroes Rule Boxing’:
   
   “From the inception of boxing in this country it has been dominated by men who developed out of struggle with life. Our first real heavyweight champion, Tom Molyneaux, was born a slave in Virginia and won his freedom with his fistic talent. Fighting as a freedman in New York he beat all challengers and earned the right to be called the first American heavyweight champion.
   
   All of the great old-time Negro boxers were born under poor and depressing circumstances but rose above their environments to win acclaim wherever they fought. Peter Jackson, Sam Langford, George Dixon, Joe Gans, the immortal “Old Master,” and Jack Johnson all knew what it felt like to be up against the wall and cornered. Their bitter experiences were reflected in their superb endurance and their toughness of spirit. Their early poverty showed itself in the way they handled themselves as men and boxers.
   
   I am personally indebted to a number of Negro boxers who worked as my sparring partners in the years when I was learning how to handle myself in a ring. When I was fighting I had many Negro sparring partners at my training camp. One of these, Bill Tate, became one of my best friends. Now living in Chicago, Illinois, he is one of the finest men I have ever known. Then there was Panama Joe Gans, a great and clever fighter, who taught me a lot. The Jamaica Kid, a very fine heavyweight, worked with me before the famous 1919 fight with Jess Willard. The Kid did a lot to get me into the superb condition that enabled me to beat Willard and win the world’s championship.
   
   Sam Langford, one of the greatest of all heavyweights, is another Negro fighter who showed me some tricks and gave me the benefits of his vast experience. I worked with Old Sam in Chicago when I was a youngster. I never forgot what Langford taught me. He was cool, clever, scientific and a terrific hitter besides a fine man.
   
   Battling Gee and Battling Jim Johnson, both Negroes were also on my payroll as sparring mates. I was a pretty rough customer in those days and my sparring partners had to be good and tough to stay with me. All of these men more than made the grade.
   
   Many times I’ve had the charge hurled at me that I was prejudiced against Negroes. It is time this utter fiction was laid to rest once and for all. All my life I have believed that all men are basically brothers and that differences of color and religion are superficial. I hate prejudice. I hate discrimination. I hate intolerance. Boxing has been guilty of its share of color bias but I categorically deny that I ever practiced it either as a fighter, manager or promoter. The several Negro fighters who have been under my management will testify to my long-held belief in equality of treatment for all men, regardless of color.
   
   Since I am on the subject of the color line in boxing, let me clear the air of the many rumors and suspicions and charges that have been moving around me as a result of my failure to fight Harry Wills. I have never run away from a fight in my life. Ever since I left public school to work in the Colorado mines, my credo has been to fight all comers and may the best man win. Harry Wills was a great fighter in his prime and I would have liked to have been matched with him. But it was not to be. The reasons had nothing to do with color prejudice on my part (which I have never held), nor fear of Wills fighting skill. I wanted to fight Wills badly, but Tex Rickard, who had the final say, never matched us.
   
   Rickard was a Texan. He had a rough time of it out in San Francisco, California, after the Johnson-Jeffries fight which he promoted in Reno. The repercussions of that fight swirled about Rick’s head for a long time after the fight and he was a victim of ugly charges and a wicked smear campaign. This experience soured him on mixed fights for the heavyweight crown. As a result he was never anxious to promote a match between Wills and myself.
   
   The facts clearly show that in 1926 I tried desperately to arrange a fight with Harry Wills but the deal collapsed when my guarantee was not forthcoming. Wills and I had signed to fight with a promoter named Floyd Fitzsimmons of Benton Harbor, Michigan. Wills, I understand, received fifty thousand dollars as his guarantee for signing the contract. I was to have received one hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars in advance of the fight. As the date of the fight grew nearer and my money did not appear, I became anxious and asked Fitzsimmons what was the matter. He wired me to meet him in Dayton, Ohio, assuring me that he would have the money for me there. I met Fitzsimmons in Dayton who handed me a certified check for twenty-five thousand dollars and a promise to let me have the balance almost immediately. I balked at that, demanding the full amount right away. Fitzsimmons tried to placate me by calling the bank where he said he had deposited the money. The bank, unfortunately for Fitzsimmons, informed him that it did not have that much money on hand, that there wasn’t enough to cover the twenty-five thousand dollar check he had given me. Furious, I returned the check to Fitzsimmons and told him the fight was off. Later, the Fitzsimmons syndicate financing the fight sued me for failure to honor a contract. I won the case.
   
   When the Wills fight failed to materialize, Tex Rickard jumped back into the picture and matched me with Gene Tunney. The rest is history. And that is the real story behind the negotiations for the Harry Wills fight which never came off. I am sorry Wills and I never got a chance to square off in the ring. I am sure it would have been one beautiful scrap.” ​
   
   
   
   
   

 

I think some people who chastise Dempsey in this affair talk almost as if Dempsey should have been acting as Wills' manager in all of this.

I wouldn't expect Dempsey to even entertain the idea of fighting Harry Wills for less money than he got for the Carpentier fight. I wouldn't expect Dempsey to be going around the world trying to hook up a Wills fight on the cheap. That would just be stupid.

Kearns said in 1922 that he was willing to take a gate percentage but that the site would have to be decided, and was looking at somewhere with potential for $500,000 as a ballpark figure.

Boxing is a business.
I'm not sure that these guys were turning down such huge offers.