Sugar Ray Leonard vs Sugar Ray Robinson, H2H

Oh my !. The further we get from the fighters careers, the further we get from the truth...
If Ray Robinson ,who I saw in his prime as a welterweight, got in the ring against another fighter who called himself "Sugar" also, I fear for Ray Leonard's health as great as Ray Leonard was..
In 1945 there was a welterweight sensation by the name of George {SUGAR] Costner
who bravely challenged the egotistic Ray Robinson...Well Robby didn't take kindly to
Costner usurping the name SUGAR, and promptly flattened Costner in the first round...
Not being entirely convinced, later on George "sugar" Costner demanded a rematch with Robinson who told Costner before the bout "there is but ONE SUGAR ", and Ray once
more kod Costner in ONE round...Costner was a terrific welterweight of that time who became blind and was forced to leave boxing...
H2H , Ray Robinson batters Ray Leonard in a Fantasy fight both in their primes...
Robinson had about FIVE times as many bouts as Leonard against a greater array of
fighters in a "golden age" of boxing...There was but ONE SUGAR, and his name was
Walker Smith....

 

Given Robinson's defence wasn't the beat there's the chance he could be outboxed, I'm just not sure if Leonard would be the man to do so. I think Hearns could outbox Robinson on the outside though, but ultimately gets stopped late

OK back to the topic at hand, if Leonard uses a stick a move strategy with loads of lateral movement he could maybe pull it off as I think he has better movement and speed than Robinson. It's something Robinson never encountered bar maybe Galivan, where he struggled, he also supposedly struggled with Tommy Bell (although I'm not sure on this looking at reports)

If they fight in range Robinson just batters Leonard, he's by far the better of the puncher of the 2

 

I think Robinson would very possibly knock Leonard out in the late rounds of a 15-rounder.
He would certainly rally to a clear victory at the very least.

Robinson can fight busy and ferocious just like Duran, with superior reach, superior power, superior chin. And he can do more besides.
He's beating Leonard, surely.

 

I think my problem with Leonard being stopped is Robinson's low KO percentage, which is affected by him carrying opponents for the mafia but I wonder how many he carried and how many who could simply take his punches or spoil

 

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Leonard's inferior ability to integrate his movement and punching would doom him to failure.

 

Oh my God ! One of the ultimate dream fights,is n't it ?


Bloody hard one to call. I'll put my neck out and say Robinson,but it's equally credible to plump for Leonard. The original Sugarman's harder punching may just about swing it.

 

I think this is a key point. Leonard is a great mover, and has amazing offense, but they tend to alternate rather than be the sum of a whole.

He does have great heart and a chin though, so it'd be something to see.

Robinson by close UD, taking the majority of the late rounds. Something like 8-6-1.

 

To me i think SRL is smarter fighter than SRR but SRR is bigger and stronger. He have him outgunned in the physical area and SRL's slightly better ring smarts will not be enough to offset SRR's advantages. SRL is faster btw

 

Leonard outboxing Robinson from the outside is hard for me to picture. Its gonna give Robinson a chance to time him with those explosive combinations. Hard to outbox a guy with equal or greater speed and a height advantage not to mention superior firepower.

I think Ray Leonard`s best tactic would be to stay on the inside where he was a little sharper than SRR. Still he`d have to get past Robinson`s jab and other artillery on the way inside.

Its a tall order.

 

I'm having a difficult time understanding the thought pattern myself Burt.

I have noticed though, in the past while, that the board seems to be moving in the direction of these guys are better(???), very hard to fathom with a **** load of history right in front of them! I myself tried to remind them of 25 years a Champion & Top 10 in over 200 fights and mostly against the best or noted fighters and it still seems to mean little.

Sure some recent fighters could give any of there peers a good run, But the truth is more so the oppisite from the other end. Most of them are already etched in ink and history; it's the recent fighters that HAVE to be weighed up against the same conditions - scheduals, compitition and longievity...

and as I stated many would fall away; see RJJr.

 

Robinson was a cut above Leonard.

A prime Robinson would be going in there with about 100 professional fights experience - and about 1 loss !
He'd faced dozens of great fighters already.
The best Leonard would be 31-1, far too inexperienced. And simply out-gunned.

 

I could certainly see it either way, but I'll go with Leonard over 15. Prime for prime, how many fights either had isn't as wide a gap when you consider that Leonard was polished by 150-something amateur fights and was fighting at the international level for the last 3-4 years of that span. That, too, is experience, so Leonard was a far more polished beginner as a pro than Robinson.

I love Burt's contributions, but to suggest that Robinson knocking out some bum with the nickname "Sugar" has any bearing is laughable. It's like saying Leonard would win because he's the only one really named Ray.

Perhaps someone can point me to better sources, but it looks like Robinson is an inch taller and Leonard's reach is two inches longer. Neither is the kind of advantage that adds up to much at this level -- Leonard overcame Hearns' longer reach but lost the first time to Duran, who was shorter with shorter arms.

I've seen both on film (and Leonard, of course, on TV as it happened) and I can't tell a dime's difference between them. Tommy Bell gave Robinson as much of a fight (or better, perhaps) as Benetiz did a young Leonard, and I'll take Benitez's resume over Bell's. As great as Robinson was, he still had to fight his ass off to beat good fighters in competitive fights, as did Leonard. Neither was untouchable. That they were in great fights and mostly prevailed is what makes them ATGs.

 

SRL was a great and talented fighter but he is not in the class of the greatest, remember SRR was 126-1-1 before he lost to Turpin at least 3xs the amount of fights...SRR by late stop in a great fight.