How would prime Antonio Tarver do against prime Sven Ottke?

Mind Reader · Jul 22, 2012

bailey said: ↑

Yes at SMW Johnson was a journeyman with more losses than wins.
Johnson and Tarver was a bit of a step up for Jones at the time at LHW, Johnson was a world champ LHW who had beaten Woods, and would beat Tarver who had just beaten Jones

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I never understood this "step up" when Jones fought Tarver and Johnson...

Look at their record against common opponents... that should tell you all you need to know.

Tarver was 1-1 against Harding, ended up being 0-1 against Hopkins
Johnson was 1-1-1 with Woods 0-1 against Gonzalez, 0-1 against Hopkins and that could go on and on... Roy Jones had been smoking fighters on Johnson's level his entire career.

It is clear that Roy was the one who was no longer the same.

Anyone that defends the "Roy was exposed when he stepped up" argument is full of ****.
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Mind Reader · Jul 22, 2012

It is funny though Bailey that you think Tarver called Roy out instead of DM for "local" bragging rights.... In local do you mean Florida? Because Pensacola and Orlando are 2 totally different places..

I am pretty sure Tarver called Roy out because Roy was the best boxer in the world, and to be the best you have to beat the best. He knew a win over DM would not mean as much. He knew a win over Roy, he would be forever remembered across the world and boxing history, not just "local" gyms in Florida.

general zod · Jul 22, 2012

Thread title:
How would prime Antonio Tarver do against prime Sven Ottke?

bailey said: ↑

I think the Ring is only legit if you beat who is considered the man at the time. In the case of Jones/Michalczewski, Michalczewski had lefit claim to all the titles, did that before Jones in most cases and beat the men. Jones didnt do that, he collected alot of titles Dariusz vacated.
Dariusz beat who was considered the man. Jones didnt

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It was obvious from the start that you were going to start talking about Jones, Darius M, Linear titles, etc

Loudon · Jul 22, 2012

bailey said: ↑

:huh Changed the subject to what? What have I not answered?
Think you are losing it Loudon. You were the only one that hasnt been able to answer questions

As said, I havent said there are not differences, I posted 2 vids and asked someone to tell me and you cannot do that. You havent gone into any detail, you said he was older but couldnt say much else or that it was pointless. dont lie Loudon.
Also why are you not just bumping the thread? WHY? Bring up the post. I have said to you, PM me and I will answer. Seems you are ducking bumping the thread for fear of further schoolings

Another statement that you cannot back up.
You said this before and couldnt back it up when questioned

Yes at SMW Johnson was a journeyman with more losses than wins.
Johnson and Tarver was a bit of a step up for Jones at the time at LHW, Johnson was a world champ LHW who had beaten Woods, and would beat Tarver who had just beaten Jones

When someone said 5/6 years they are just saying years but you call that an exact and try to make more of it. I proved to you Calzaghe had called Jones out before those 5/6 years by showing videos and quotes, which showed when he said 5/6 years he was just saying he had called him out for a while. I showed how Calzaghe called Jones out at the time of Sheika, Woodhall and McIntyre yet you still try and say different. Why? Calzaghe said he was about 34 when he beat Kessler but was 35, he got a date wrong, I suppose that is a great lie to you and you could split hairs over that.

Bring up the video. Joemay well not have rated his win over Jones. I think it was a fair win for the champ to beat the #6 LHW. Why should I care how highly Calzaghe rates one of his wins. I thought it was a good win where many experts picked Calzaghe to lose

Are you pretending he wasnt found to have levels over what they should have been?
Why fight Tarver who looked awful, when you could fight Hopkins who clearly beat Tarver? At LHW Tarver has had as many world title losses as he has wins and Calzaghe was a SMW where Lacy was considered the big challenge.
If you want to talk of contradictions, why would you expect Calzaghe to fight Tarver when Tarver lost to this so called shot version of Jones coming down from HW where he lost muscle and was weak?

What are you going on about now :huh. im sure you have lost it somewhere. I said if you have something to say, bump the thread and say it, but you are ducking that.

Now why do you keep mentioning Jones on a Tarver/Ottke thread, try and answer that question then work on to the others
Which you cannot counter when I use them
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This is my last response on the subject, otherwise we'll be here for a week.

On every thread where we've ever debated, you've swerved certain questions, that you couldn't answer.

I'm asking you Jones related questions on this thread, because you went missing on the last one when me and Zod owned you with facts, that you had no answer to.

I've clearly gone into detail about how Roy was different in the two videos, listing the dramatic change in his abilities and his mind set.

Further schoolings? Ha! do me a favour!

I agree that Johnson was a journeyman, and he wasn't a step up in competition for Roy. But you like to say that Roy got exposed by moving up in levels, implying that Glen beat him, because it was a step up, after he'd been royding and fighting binmen. Your posts ( on many other threads) clearly imply that Glen beat Roy in your opinion, because Roy was over hyped, and Glen was a better fighter. Now if that's your opinion, then that's fine by me. But then on another post, you say that he was nothing but a journeyman, and dismiss his abilities. That is a massive contradiction! Was he a better fighter than Roy, and did he expose him? Or is he a journeyman? You can't have it both ways. The thing with me is, I've got a great memory, and I can remember what you've said in previous posts, without pulling them back up. I know that you constantly contradict yourself, and I'm sure many other posters are also aware of it too.

You share the same opinion as Joe, in that you think he chased Roy, and Roy didn't want to know. I respect your opinion. But to support your opinion, you put posts up of Joe, giving various interviews to the media. You have done this on numerous occasions, posting up the same links and interviews. So I broke it down, and I exposed him for the liar that he is, using logic, facts and Joe's own statements. But then you say I'm splitting hairs? I'm not splitting any hairs, Joe was adamant that he'd chased Roy, and I proved otherwise. You constantly throw the links around as some sort of proof, but when I actually prove that he's bullshitting, you've got nothing to say, apart from a stuttered response, saying that you can't recall exact dates, and I'm splitting hairs, and making something out of nothing. You're quick to post the videos up, but when I expose him, you go quiet.

Joe did rate his win over Roy, that's the point. But that was after he'd dismissed Roy as being a threat. He said he was finished, and then ended up fighting him anyway, and then tried to pass it off as some big accomplishment. You also rate the win over Roy, which again, is fair enough, and that's your opinion. But then when you get presented with a video of Joe dismissing him, I ask you what your thoughts are on that, and again, I don't get an answer.

Tarver was the man at 175 after he'd beat Roy in 2004, while Joe was starving himself to fight at 168. He ended up fighting Hopkins 4 years after Tarver beat Roy. I was asking why he didn't go up and have big money fights at 175, instead of struggling to make weight, and fighting guys like Manfredo to gain U.S. exposure? Just because he ends up beating Hopkins, who beat Tarver, that doesn't excuse him for not fighting Tarver does it? He claims that he wanted Tarver, Johnson, and Roy, but he couldn't get a fight with any of them. Funny how Clinton could though. If Joe was happy at 168 fair enough, but he wasn't. He told everyone that he struggled to make weight and he wanted big money fights, but nobody wanted to fight him.

Anyway, no hard feelings, I actually like your threads. We'll leave it that.

Regards, Loudon.
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general zod · Jul 22, 2012

Loudon said: ↑

Funny how Clinton could though. .
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Super middleweight king Joe Calzaghe has allegedly turned down a £1m offer to fight Sheffield's IBF light heavyweight champion Clinton Woods. But Woods will defend his world title against Australia's Jason DeLisle, who he stopped in 2004, on 13 May.
Woods' promoter Dennis Hobson said: "We were offering Calzaghe more than he'd ever been paid in his career before.
"We were prepared to co-promote and make the fight for Wales. If that's not good enough, what is?"

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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4861904.stm

Loudon · Jul 22, 2012

general zod said: ↑

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4861904.stm
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That's very interesting. I'd heard a few things in the past, but wasn't aware of any offer.

Regards, Loudon.

general zod · Jul 22, 2012

Loudon said: ↑

That's very interesting. I'd heard a few things in the past, but wasn't aware of any offer.

Regards, Loudon.
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Woods was a warrior and was prepared to fight anybody, which is why I have so much respect for him. Johnson x3, Tarver, Jones and Cloud.

general zod · Jul 22, 2012

bailey said: ↑

No, its because you dont know the fights that happend on British TV.
So did you not watch any British TV boxing matches and just watched more obscure American boxing matches then Zod ?
You werent able to say what the weather was doing in Leeds
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?????????
Because I'm not familiar with every British fight, that means I don't live in Leeds?:nut

Which obscure American fights are you referring to?

general zod · Jul 22, 2012

bailey said: ↑

i dont hate Jones at all.
Now why dont you bring back your old post on when Jones was caught with something he shouldnt have had in his system
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Do I think Jones used steroids? Yes. Does it have anything to do with Ottke-Tarver? Not really

Toney is my favourite fighter (mw-smw) and he got caught twice. If I make a thread about Toney, which I might do, does that mean I hate him as well?

Loudon · Jul 22, 2012

general zod said: ↑

Woods was a warrior and was prepared to fight anybody, which is why I have so much respect for him. Johnson x3, Tarver, Jones and Cloud.
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I couln't agree more. Even though Joe was clearly a better fighter, I've got much more respect for Clinton. He was a true warrior. I can remember him dancing to Roy's entrance music in their fight. It took a lot of bottle for him to go over to Oregon to fight Roy, when Roy was nearly peak in 2002. If Clinton's corner hadn't have thrown the towel in, he'd have continued to fight, there was no quit in him. He's very well respected in Sheffield, where I'm from.

Regards, Loudon.

m8te · Jul 22, 2012

sven ottke's list of robberies in his german fatherland is incredibly long and the fluke "win" against glen johnson is located somewhere near the top. he didn't land any meaningful shots on johnson and the road warrior cleanly outboxed him. that was nothing but an injustice and anyone without a pro-euro, jingoistic agenda like bailey would be able to plainly see that. If antonio tarver came into the fight motivated, which he would against the protected, yet nevertheless high profile german, he would defeat ottke handily. there's very few bigger jokes in the last twenty years of pugilism than sven ottke, and i'll end it on that note.

bailey · Jul 22, 2012

Mind Reader said: ↑

I never understood this "step up" when Jones fought Tarver and Johnson...

Click to expand...

Tarver and Johnson were LHWs that believed they could be at Jones, especially Tarver who showed Jones little respect

Look at their record against common opponents... that should tell you all you need to know.

Tarver was 1-1 against Harding,

Click to expand...

But Jones was 1-2 against Tarver

ended up being 0-1 against Hopkins

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Whilst Jones is 1-1 with Hopkins

Johnson was 1-1-1 with Woods 0-1 against Gonzalez, 0-1 against Hopkins and that could go on and on... Roy Jones had been smoking fighters on Johnson's level his entire career.

Click to expand...

Yet Jones is 0-1 against Johnson and 1-1 with Hopkins

It is clear that Roy was the one who was no longer the same.

Anyone that defends the "Roy was exposed when he stepped up" argument is full of ****

Click to expand...

How good did Roy look beating Lacy and Sheika or Ajamu. Looked like superman all over again
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bailey · Jul 22, 2012

Mind Reader said: ↑

It is funny though Bailey that you think Tarver called Roy out instead of DM for "local" bragging rights.... In local do you mean Florida? Because Pensacola and Orlando are 2 totally different places..

I am pretty sure Tarver called Roy out because Roy was the best boxer in the world, and to be the best you have to beat the best. He knew a win over DM would not mean as much. He knew a win over Roy, he would be forever remembered across the world and boxing history, not just "local" gyms in Florida.
Click to expand...

DM had faded by this time and lost a debateable decision. Before that happend Tarver like Jones stayed well away from the Tiger

Mind Reader · Jul 22, 2012

bailey said: ↑

Tarver and Johnson were LHWs that believed they could be at Jones, especially Tarver who showed Jones little respect
But Jones was 1-2 against Tarver

Whilst Jones is 1-1 with Hopkins

Yet Jones is 0-1 against Johnson and 1-1 with Hopkins
How good did Roy look beating Lacy and Sheika or Ajamu. Looked like superman all over again
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We all know Roy's record against Tarver and Johnson..

I was pointing out that Tarver and Johnson lost to some of the fighters Roy schooled when he was closer to his best. Therefore Tarver and Johnson were not a league above the fighters Roy had been fighting.

Roy still looks ok against C level fighters, which is what Lacy, Sheika and Ajamu are, he still did not look anything close to what he was.. anyone who can't see that is blind.
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Mind Reader · Jul 22, 2012

bailey said: ↑

DM had faded by this time and lost a debateable decision. Before that happend Tarver like Jones stayed well away from the Tiger
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That's not my point... My point is Tarver knew beating Roy was more for his legacy than beating DM.

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