Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jul 23, 2012.

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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Afterall, he was just as dominant in Johnson/Dempsey's era and beat better competition than Dempsey did.

    H2H, I laugh when people say Wills is "made" for Dempsey. I didn't realize 6'3 210lb heavyweights with strength, power, skills, athleticism were made for 185lb champions. Clumsy, uncoordinated, unskilled big men like fulton, willard, firpo, morris were made to order for Jack..but we are talking about a big man(wills) who actually knew how to fight(unlike those guys). Perhaps Jack with his come forward style would have been made for Harry Wills. Jack never fought a big man who actually knew how to fight. Jack never fought a big man who was world class in both punching abilities, and the skill department. Wills would have been a major step up in competition for Jack.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 23, 2012
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  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Dempsey's name should be stricken from all records or kept merely in the lineage of White Hope Also-Ran Champions.

    The People's Committee has spoken.
     
    Seamus, Jul 23, 2012
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  3. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes Comrade Stalin !
     
    burt bienstock, Jul 23, 2012
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  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Power to the People!
     
    Seamus, Jul 23, 2012
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  5. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    It could be easily argued, I think. They're close.
     
    the cobra, Jul 23, 2012
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  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It could be argued, and indeed you could make a similar case for having Sam Langford over Jack Johnson.
     
    janitor, Jul 23, 2012
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  7. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    How much of Fred Fulton, Harry Wills and Carl Morris have you seen on film to make comparisons and offer your assessment/descriptions ?

    Are you in fact just talking out of your ass ?
     
    Legend X, Jul 23, 2012
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  8. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Certainly, Langford deserves more credit in general.

    It's absolutely mind blowing to think that someone who started as big as Adrian Broner was knocking out LHWs and heavies of that day.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jul 23, 2012
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  9. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    As far as resumes go, it depends how credit Harry Wills should be given for fighting the same old fighters over and over.

    I know the common explanation is that 'no one wanted to fight the black fighters' but you've got to consider that guys like Wills were taking advantage of tha too. I don't see any excuse for him fighting old Jack Thompson so many times, some of which received horrible reviews, purses witheld etc.. And some of the later Langford fights were horrible as well as pointless.

    If Wills was scrutinized even half as much as Dempsey is people here would know what I'm talking about. If you scratch the surface a bit the Harry Wills resume has a lot of rot in it.

    Having said that, if you want to rate him above Dempsey, go ahead. It's not an outrageous suggestion.
     
    Legend X, Jul 23, 2012
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  10. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    Well, one of those clumsy, uncoordinated, unskilled guys KO'd Johnson, and another put Langford in the hospital and had 70 of his 79 wins by knockout.

    Not bad for a bunch of stiff oafs.
     
    Rock0052, Jul 23, 2012
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  11. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Bob Fitzsimmons much bigger brother. Full Member

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    No he should not be rated above Dempsey.
    But the 'colour bar' prevented greats like Wills fighting for the title, so these discussions/debates have occurred through the years.
     
    KernowWarrior, Jul 23, 2012
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  12. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dempsey was a notch below the best of his era losing brutally to Fitzsimmons and getting knocked out by Tommy Ryan as well. Otherwise he was nearly unstoppable (the lots to LeBlanche being illegal really). He held Professor.Mike Donovan to a draw and bested him and had beaten LaBlanche before hand. An excellent record but i'm not sure the era itself is deep enough to warrant Dempsey, even with his middleweight title over Wills. But its close...
     
    LittleRed, Jul 23, 2012
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  13. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    If you look at their resumes Wills was the better of the 2, who was the better boxer we'll never know
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 23, 2012
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  14. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    I tend to think Dempsey was better but his record is a lot thinner than Willis'. I think I have Dempsey a spot ahead currently.
     
    PetethePrince, Jul 23, 2012
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This content is protected

    Below, the Wills Firpo fight.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...3.1&srpos=45&e=-------10--41----0Harry++wills--

    Below, the Wills Madden fight.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg....14&srpos=27&e=-------10--21----0Harry++wills--

    Wills talking.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...9.4&srpos=22&e=-------10--21----0Harry++wills--
    Views on a Dempsey /Wills fight.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...2.1&srpos=21&e=-------10--21----0Harry++wills--
    The Wills /Fulton fight below.
    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...3.4&srpos=11&e=-------10--11----0Harry++wills--

    Wills / Norfolk.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg....46.2&srpos=6&e=-------10--1----0Harry++wills--

    Not a good result below.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg....16.2&srpos=5&e=-------10--1----0Harry++wills--

    Wills/ Madden

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg....46&srpos=20&e=-------10--11----0Harry++wills--
    Some mixed reviews there imo.
     
    mcvey, Jul 24, 2012
    #15
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