'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Jul 23, 2012.


  1. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with both points,Maff.
     
  2. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Ash Resnick (Thunderbird Hotel)

    Sonny Liston trained at the Thunderbird Hotel (Las Vegas) in December 1963 and January 1964
    in preperation for the February 25, 1964 Heavyweight Championship bout with Cassius Clay.

    Sonny didn't get to Miami Beach until 2-weeks before the fight. When there, he set up his
    training camp at the Surfside Community Center, where all expenses were covered by
    Ash Resnick.

    A notorious Las Vegas Gambler, with connections to all of the 'high-rollers'.
    Ash was a ''mean tough guy' with a nasty attitude.

    At the time, he was running the Thunderbird Hotel in Las Vegas, a hang-out for
    the 1950's hoodlums. Old mob guys, who still liked a 'little action'.

    The Thunderbord Hotel, was a favorite 'hang-out' for the Youngstown, Ohio
    'mobsters and union bosses'.

    Sonny Liston was Ash Resnick's 'good buddy' in 1963 and 1964. The word going around,
    was that the Champion was Mr. Resnick's personal body guard.

    How bad was Ash Resnick.

    He was 'banned' from every 'Horse Racetrack' in Florida. Yet, he was in Sonny's
    prep room before the February 1964 fight, and was at ringside near Sonny's corner
    for the fight.

    Ash was a 'money man', always figuring out the 'best angles'. When it came to
    betting and gambling, Ash was one of the best out there.
     
  3. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Sonny Liston, with little Cassius Clay sitting on his lap.

    This content is protected
     
  4. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Irving "Ash" Resnick was a very influential man and a legend on the old Las Vegas strip.
    He was a gambling tzar, an innovator, a genius of the odds. He brought a lot of money in to Las Vegas, was one of the first to entice and maximize the high roller hospitality set-up and the 'junkets'. He worked hard and lined the pockets of the mob.
    He was a professional gambler par excellence.

    He was heavily involved in organized crime, as a mob courier and accountant for the 'skim'.

    He was a representative of the Patriarcha crime family, but as Vegas was an 'open' mob town, he knew the guys from all the mobs and crews.

    Sonny Liston was with him night and day in the months before the Clay fight in Miami.
    Liston liked to gamble. He lost money.
     
  5. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Legend X,

    One of the bizarre things, despite Sonny working out in Las Vegas and staying at the
    Thunderbird Hotel, the Nevada State Athletic Commission wanted nothing to do with Sonny anymore.

    He was banned from participating in any paid events, as his 'mob connections', 'multiple contracts'
    and 'advisors' were too numerous to list.
     
  6. jdempsey85

    jdempsey85 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The more i read about these 2 fights the more it STINKS same when i read about rubin carter u just know this guy murdered them people.

    FIXED


    Was the 2nd fight banned in 48 states? If so why?


    SENOR PEPE GREAT POSTER
     
  7. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest

    They interviewed people coming out of the second fight. They couldn't find a single person who thought it was on the level.
     
  8. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    J Dempsey 85

    '48' State Boxing Commissions banned Sonny Liston (pulled his boxing license) following the
    Miami Beach fight, following the irregularites in the bout and concerns regarding Sonny's ongoing
    ties to the 'underworld'.

    Seems that Sonny Liston had numerous contracts, and had sold more than 100% of himself.

    Plus, he was getting into numerous 'police squabbles' in Denver.

    The only states that didn't ban him, Massachussets and Kentucky (Cassius Clay's home state).

    But, eventually, Massachussets pulled the plug on the Clay vs Liston II fight, when the
    Boston District Attorney (Garrett H.. Byrne) found ties with the Sonny Liston Group and 'mob connections' in
    Youngstown, Ohio and Chicago, Illinois dating back to 1963.

    The State of Maine (Lewiston) got the fight, only because of Sam Michael (a small-time wrestling and boxing promoter),
    who begged the Maine State officials to sanction the bout.

    Sam Michael told the State of Maine Athletic Commission that the Heavyweight Championship bout
    would put Lewiston, Maine on the map.

    'It Sure Did'
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Oh my days. The ts is absolutely bonkers.
     
  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    The original plan was to have the rematch in Las Vegas, where the 'big money' was -

    But the Nevada State Boxing Commission put a 'squash on that', and sent everybody
    scrambling, without a place to stage 'Act II'.
     
  11. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "I was born in March, 1927"

    I guess the 1930 census got it wrong?

    But assuming Liston was in fact 37 in 1964, why do we need to conjure a fix to explain his losing to a fighter of the calibre of Ali?
     
  12. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Are you even allowed to bet money on yourself to win in boxing?
     
  13. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because in Febraury 1964,,,,,,,

    Cassius Clay was considered 'A Joke'.

    A weak punching, dancing 'fancy boy'.

    What exactly 'did you see' between June 18, 1963 (when Clay fought Henry Cooper) and
    February 24, 1964 (8-months later) that told you Cassius Clay would defeat Sonny Liston on February 25, 1964.

    Look it up.

    Please don't tell everybody you knew Cassius Clay was that good in February 1964.

    And that you knew Sonny Liston was that far gone.
     
  14. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sure. You could even bet money against yourself.
    If he was dealing with a legal sports book, a boxer would send a confederate in to make the bet, although there is nothing prohibiting the principal himself from making the bet.
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Neither was the rematch.

    Legitimate punch, legitimate knockdown, terrible reffing.