Ali vs Frazier 1..THE FIGHT

Ali fans will say it made all of the difference in the world! Although 3 years off does not help, I will take Prime Frazier everyday and twice on Sunday!

Either way he won the fight when they were closest to their primes, and that is good enough for me!

I would call it the 2nd best HW win ever just behind Schmeling-Louis I

 

Yeah, answers will fall into two camps.

Everyone has heard ad nauseum about how faded Ali was and his legs were gone, not the same, etc. But you don't hear much about how Frazier's lateral movement nd versatility in the form of movement wasn't what it was before his ankle break in '69 or '70... I thought it was '70.

Anyway, Senior Pepe, or his alias at the time, did a good job of constructing that argument a while back. Since then I've studied Frazier, looking for the difference he argued and I could agree. He didn't move as well after Stander.

Another facet of this gem of a topic is that yes, while Ali definitely lost something during the layoff, so did Frazier in he same way, but while Frazier's loss was from an injury, Ali's loss was an organic adaptation to a now fully mature body which didn't lend itself to constant motion.

I believe even if he had stayed active '67-'70 he would have lost that step naturally. His style naturally modified to a more efficient, less mobile one.

I'll also argue that it was just as effective. Different, but effective. He still showed flashes of his old self post-'70, but not for sustained stretches.

 

Short answer: Frazier would always give Ali hell.

 

To be honest, Ali looked sharp in the First Quarry fight.

 

Eh, not really.

 

I honestly think both camps have it right.

Ali was not the same guy he was pre-layoff, period, and he was rusty, period.

Frazier fought like a man possessed, period, and would have always had a difficult style for Ali, period.

Prime for prime, I frankly think a trilogy between them has the exact same result.

 

Great fighters. Great fight. Great event. Its a cliche but Ali didn't lose that fight; Frazier won it. In his long career Ali reached deep into that well and pulled out some magic: the rope a dope, the 15th round with Bonavena, the championship rounds in Manila, against Lyle, against Shavers. He did it in this fight too. For the only fight of his career Ali was just outgutted, not just outfought. I can think of no higher compliment to give Frazier.

 

He had a couple of fights to get the feel of the ring back. Some people may point to ringrust but Ali was sharp in this fight. He was hitting Frazier with some razor sharp combinations. Joe Frazier just had that iron chin and relentless will.

I believe that Ali underestimated Joe Frazier more than anything. He thought he would pepper Joe for a few rounds and that Frazier woud weaken and or get so busted up he couldnt be effective.

As it was Joe seemingly got stronger as the rounds went on and became a more difficult target than Ali expected. Joe Frazier was also alot quicker than Ali thought he was.

 

I am a BIG Ali fan but honestly Frazier won the fight and defeated an undefeated Ali.
Frazier gets all credit for the fight and the 3 year lay wouldn't change the result.

 

I have to completely disagree with your points. Muhammad Ali did not under estimate Joe Frazier at all. Nothing about the way he fought that fight showed any slow down in him, any missed steps or any point of confusion as the fight progressed.

As another poster stated, Ali didn't lose that fight, Joe Frazier won it. Ali gets hit in the 15th with a shot that should have knocked him out cold. One second on his back, he's up on his feet. This is the 15th round of a war we are talking about it here...and then after that KD Ali eats three shots that should have also sent him back to the canvas. They didn't. When the 15 round was over, Joe Frazier had the appearance of a man who had lost the fight.

Joe Frazier and Ali were both other-worldly that night and Joe was simply determined not to lose and he didn't.

 

If Ali had fought another two or three times between Bonavena and Frazier,it may have made the difference,but Frazier may well have still won their first go with each other.

 

On a side note do you think Ali could have lost a H2H trilogy with any heavyweight considering his ring IQ ? don't want to get slated just interested to hear some views

 

Excellent post, totaly sums it up.

 

No, with due respect a three year layoff does change the result.
Prime Joe would always give Ali hell but let's move up that trilogy a few years.
They may have fought first by 68-early 69. A wide (yet tough) UD for Muhammad. Anyone dispute this?
Their second scrap? Who knows 69-70? Just remember that Ali basically started Joe's downfall with that FOTC beating despite Ali's rustiness. And let's not forget that Ali ignored Angie & Bundini's advise to wait a few more months, instead fighting Joe a scant three months later after the tough Bonavena scrap. Had they matched in say, June or July we might have had a different result.